Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 01-06-2016, 08:28 PM   #1
Radas
Tile Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SE MI
Posts: 331
Ali's kitchen Remodel

Hello guys and gals,

My name is Ali and I've been lurking on here for a while and decided to join after finding a lot of useful information and friendly advice.

I'm 28, on my third home (flipped a few), and have learned quite a bit with each demo/renovation/install I've completed. I have dabbled in tile installs in the past, but after doing some well needed reading on here, I have found that my work was not necessarily done the proper way (i.e. no thinset under wonderboard... luckily everything held up!!). I am getting ready to demo and remodel the kitchen in my new house, and am looking for for some guidance and blessings from the pros here.

So some info about my install:

I have 7/8" outdoor rated osb flooring throughout this ranch. Joists are unorthodox (I've included a picture) because they are 2 2x4's sandwiched with metal zig zag bracing between amd alongside them. and I was told they are pretty sturdy by a contractor/builder who I had help with my inspection. Joists are spaced 24" OC and distance between supports ranges from 11' to 13'. The support distance specifically under the kitchen is 11'. Joists also measure in at 3" wide by 11" tall.

I also ran the deflection calculator here with positive results, I just want to make sure that my joist width is correct at 3" only because they are not solid beams.

My plan is to strip the .25" luaun and two layers of linoleum from the kitchen floor, use a .25" square trowel and spread on some polymer modified thinset, add .25" wonderboard perpendicular to the osb, alkalii resistant tape and mortar the seams, and begin setting my 12x24" grade 4 porcelain tiles with the same .25" square notched trowel. I plan on using sanded grout with .125" grout lines.

Folks, am I good to go?

Edit* won't let me attach pictures...
__________________
Ali

..a new excuse to hoard tools
Radas is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 01-06-2016, 08:51 PM   #2
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 91,278
Welcome, Ali.

You can attach photos from storage on your computer using the paper-clip icon above the Reply dialog box.

The only way you can determine the suitability of your joists is to consult the manufacturer. Our Deflectometer is of no help there at all.

I've not seen any 7/8ths" OSB and have only heard of it here on the forums from the folks in the PNW. You sure that's what you have? Is it a T&G style? By "outdoor," do you mean the grade stamp says Exposure 1?

If you'll read the manufacturer's recommendations for the Wonderboard, I think you'll find your single layer subflooring inadequate at your joist spacing. I'd recommend you install a second layer of 1/2" plywood over what you've got. Here's a good article showing what I consider the best method of installing that second layer.

Not sure what a "grade 4 porcelain tile" might be, but if the tile manufacturer says it complies with the requirements of ANSI A137.1 and that it's porcelain, that should be fine for your floor application.

Before you settle on that grout joint width, I recommend you stack a dozen or so of your tiles from several boxes face to back on edge and lay a straight edge across the stack to see how much size variation you might have.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!

Last edited by cx; 01-09-2016 at 12:23 PM. Reason: typo
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-06-2016, 09:16 PM   #3
Radas
Tile Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SE MI
Posts: 331
Hey CX,

Thanks for the quick reply.

Not sure if its Tongue and Groove, but I'll attach a picture - it does say exposure 1.

Thanks for letting me know about the subfloor and wonderboard. Is there a different kind of CBU that you recommend? Or Ditra? I don't mind adding 1/2 ply, but prefer an easier route if possible.

I believe it does meet the ANSI spec, I can check in the AM.

I will take your advice and check to see how much variance there is.
Attached Images
     
__________________
Ali

..a new excuse to hoard tools
Radas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-06-2016, 09:45 PM   #4
Radas
Tile Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SE MI
Posts: 331
Hmmm... just did some reading on Ditra XL and specs state it can be installed over my 24"OC single layer 7/8" subfloor with modified thinset. I have two bags of flexbond, is that sufficient for use under ditra? Also, what thinset do you recommend over ditra? I read unmodified but from what I understand, the HD stuff is junk... any recommendations?
__________________
Ali

..a new excuse to hoard tools
Radas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-06-2016, 11:12 PM   #5
Kman
Moderator
 
Kman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NW Arkansas, Ozark Mountains
Posts: 11,636
Unfortunately, the Deflecto can't be used on engineered joists like you have there. It's only good for dimensional lumber. The manufacturer of the joists would have to verify the deflection, but in most cases, joists manufactured in the last few years have a rating in excess of the minimum L/360.

I'm reasonably sure your subfloor is tongue and groove since it's sturdifloor, but to verify that, check the long (8') edges of the plywood where they run between the joists. Step on one side and if it deflects independently from the other side, it's not tongue and groove.

You can certainly use Ditra XL on a floor that has 7/8" plywood or OSB, as long as the joists meet the deflection requirements. Flexbond will work to bond it to the subfloor, and Ditraset is a good unmodified mortar to bond tile to Ditra XL.
__________________
Kevin

The top ten reasons to procrastinate:

1.
Kman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2016, 07:35 AM   #6
Radas
Tile Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SE MI
Posts: 331
Kevin,

Thanks for the additional information!

I did not see each sheet deflecting independently but I will verify again later this evening. Thinking about having my fiance walk the kitchen tonight while I check the subfloor.

I'm glad Ditra XL will make the cut, I know it costs more, but it is a hell of a lot easier to apply from the videos I've seen online and the additional water resistance (like redgard over cbu) is a bonus. I did the math and Ditra XL will cost just a bit more than 1/2 ply + CBU + flexbond over CBU.

I ordered a 175sq ft roll from Amazon this morning for $302 shipped.

Ditraset is a pain in the rear to source (I checked their supplier map and the nearest one is almost 30 miles away, but much better than paying $150 to ship from online retailers). Just in case my local retailers are out of stock, is custom's uncoupling mortar very similar in quality/reliability?

I am excited to get this work started and post some progress pictures as I go. Thank you and CX again for pointing me in the right direction.
__________________
Ali

..a new excuse to hoard tools
Radas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-08-2016, 05:18 PM   #7
Radas
Tile Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SE MI
Posts: 331
Alright, today I worked on prep.

First things first, I removed the two layers of linoleum (stick on and sheet) and luaun from the subfloor. I went over the area twice with a 2x4 and made sure it didn't catch on the luaun staples after I hammered all of them flush with the subfloor.

I discovered some staining at the base of the left hand wall, on the other side of the wall there are two bathrooms (possible toilet overflow would be my guess) but the sturdiboard is still sturdy and square so I'll move on without replacing it. I also checked for dampness and there is none. May hit that area with a drywall hygrometer to be sure or I'll keep an eye on it for the next week until my Ditra XL comes in.

I also discovered some mold on the subfloor near the sink base which makes sense because the bottom of the sink cabinet is warped from a former leak. I neutralized the mold with Hydroxen Peroxide and wiped the area clean. Once again, the floor is sturdy and square in this area.

Last but not least, I found some staining at the base of the screen door near the water evacuation port on the track. This was more than likely caused by the 13 years of buildup in that port. I cleaned it with the shop vac, flushed with hydrogen peroxide, and then again eith boiling water. The weephole outside unclogged and now I don't have to worry about a death sentence assigned to my floor before it's installed.



So here's my question:
There are some small areas of the sturdiboard that are 1/32 - 1/16 of an inch lower because some of the material came off with the kuaun. Should I fill these in with self leveler? I figured Ditra would not br forgiving with the staples, but I'm not too sure about this. I've attached two pictures of the low spots.

Second question, the last picture shows the bottom of the screen door. There is some old caulking at the bottom over a little exterior wrap that is protruding past the door framing. Should I cut out that old caulk and replace with 100% silicone just in case?
Attached Images
      
__________________
Ali

..a new excuse to hoard tools
Radas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-08-2016, 08:19 PM   #8
Kman
Moderator
 
Kman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NW Arkansas, Ozark Mountains
Posts: 11,636
I can't tell for sure from the pictures, but does the subfloor have paint or some other contaminant on it? It needs to be clean to accept Ditra. A sander will work to get it clean.

Don't worry about 1/32 or 1/16" deviation. The mortar under the Ditra will take care of that.

Remove all of that caulk that you can at the door. Replace it with 100% silicone.
__________________
Kevin

The top ten reasons to procrastinate:

1.
Kman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-08-2016, 10:18 PM   #9
Radas
Tile Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SE MI
Posts: 331
Thanks Kevin!

I think it's latex paint residue from when the builders whitewashed the walls. I'll go ahead and scuff it with my orbital and 120 grit. Was hoping to avoid creating dust and building a cocoon but I tend to have the best of luck

I'm glad to hear I won't have to do any patch work! & thank you for the silicone advice. Do you also recommend a thin later of silicone between the porcelain and the screen door frame? Or is that overkill?

My cabinets and Ditra arrive next week, I still have to go buy ditra set but I am not in a hurry.
__________________
Ali

..a new excuse to hoard tools
Radas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2016, 12:58 AM   #10
Radas
Tile Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SE MI
Posts: 331
One thing to check off the list. I've wanted this thing from the moment I laid eyes on it (online of course). I decided to splurge on something a little out of my league.

Ignore the founders bottles, I was drinking porters and watching movies with the lady, but I couldn't sit still knowing it was still in a box..
Attached Images
  
__________________
Ali

..a new excuse to hoard tools
Radas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2016, 01:39 AM   #11
Kman
Moderator
 
Kman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NW Arkansas, Ozark Mountains
Posts: 11,636
Yes, you can seal the tile/threshhold joint with silicone as well.

Good saw. That should get you through this project, and then some.
__________________
Kevin

The top ten reasons to procrastinate:

1.
Kman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2016, 04:25 AM   #12
Peerless Tile
Tile Contractor
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Columbia,SC
Posts: 1,220
If you have a Lowe's near you check to see if they stock Mapei's uncoupling mat mortar. It'll serve yo well over your Ditra XL. I prefer it over the Custom brand mortar and save you 60 miles round trip.

http://www.mapei.com/US-EN/Tile-&-St...embrane-Mortar
__________________
SC Greg
Peerless Tile is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2016, 09:23 AM   #13
Radas
Tile Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SE MI
Posts: 331
Thanks Kevin!

Greg, you are a life saver! Mapei is cheaper too
Attached Images
 
__________________
Ali

..a new excuse to hoard tools
Radas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2016, 12:06 PM   #14
Radas
Tile Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SE MI
Posts: 331
Kevin,

I know you mentioned the subfloor being clean, but I'm having some issues. The 'paint' that was on the subfloor is combination paint and joint conpound. There is a small area my orbital + 80 grit pad cleaned up a bit. However, where the 'joint compound' is, the sander isn't doing much but flattening the compound that is there...

Would it still be safe to proceed with thinset if I take light passes over the floor with my sander to promote adhesion? Or will all the compound need to be chemically stripped before I proceed? I'm afraid using chemical stripping may cause a reaction with the flexbond if I use the wrong chemical.
__________________
Ali

..a new excuse to hoard tools
Radas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-09-2016, 12:08 PM   #15
Radas
Tile Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SE MI
Posts: 331
Forgot to attach pictures. This is after 80 grit over the area for a few minutes.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Ali

..a new excuse to hoard tools
Radas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kitchen remodel? toodles Tile Forum/Advice Board 2 01-02-2013 02:53 PM
kitchen remodel sgw Tile Forum/Advice Board 8 12-30-2009 06:00 PM
Mig's kitchen remodel ampro Tile Forum/Advice Board 1 06-22-2007 07:55 AM
Kitchen Remodel~What comes first?? Sil Tile Forum/Advice Board 7 09-04-2004 02:11 PM
Kitchen Remodel Rob Z The Mud Box 25 05-16-2003 03:35 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:03 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC