Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 05-03-2022, 11:59 PM   #1
Shady at Best
Tyrone shoelaces
 
Shady at Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sacramento, ca
Posts: 753
I need suggestions on which shower system to use with 2'x4' tile

Hi everyone.
I am working on a master bathroom remodel and I am trying to decide which wall board to use for this.
I have never installed tile this large and am thinking that I don't want to use kerdi board because I feel that it's too soft and flexes. I think the possibility of the kerdi flexing when pushing the tile against will make it hard to keep the surface flat. Plus I have never once gotten perfectly plumb walls with kerdi board.
I do like the idea of using a surface membrane on the shower pan versus going with a pvc liner or a hot mop. I am in northern CA and hot mops are popular around here.
The wall tile will be trimmed out with a schluter profile so keeping wall board and the sheet rock next to it on the same plane is crucial.
Side note, still surprised that no one is mudding/ floating walls so that the finished float is in plane with the sheet rock that's outside of the shower area.

Here's the current plan with some pictures included. The original bathroom layout had a 2 wall shower in the corner, opposite of the valve wall was a bench/ tub deck that wrapped around between the 3 walls of the right side of the bathroom. The shower valve was leaking into the float and migrating out past the curb and caused water rot on multiple areas of the valve wall.
The tub deck was also removed and I moved the waste pipe and vent so that a freestanding tub with a center drain will go on its place. The water supply for the tub has also been moved/ buried in the slab so that a freestanding faucet can be installed. Self leveler was poured everywhere except the shower area.
Behind the tub on the 2 walls there will be a roughly 36" tall tile wainscoting. Minus being in a bathroom, this area should never see direct water contact unless the tub explodes. Should I use a cbu in that area for the tile? Would greenboard be suitable in this area for the tile wainscoting?

I am still looking for a better way to plumb the framing before installing a cbu or foam board.

I don't know. How would you all plumb up and or waterproof this shower to allow for a nice and flat surface to instal the 2'x4' tile? And should I invest in one of those vibrating things to get these to lay right?

Thanks
Travis


Sent from my SM-S906U1 using Tapatalk
__________________
Travis

It's just a clever handle.
Shady at Best is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 05-04-2022, 08:12 AM   #2
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc
Registered Muser
 
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Posts: 7,237
Hi Travis, it doesn't look like the photos uploaded.

In my experience, Wedi makes the stiffest board. Additionally, you can always add more blocking to help stiffen things up even more. Of course, you could do that with Kerdi board also.

For flattening walls, I use drywall shims and a planer. The planer isn't always necessary.

And I go over the walls in a very detailed manner. All plumbing nail plates are recessed into the stud. I have a straightedge that I hold horizontally and move it up and down adding shims and planing high points until it's flat.

Then I have a longer straightedge that I hold diagonally over the studs and do the same thing. I turn it one way then the other. This will tell you if the wall curves or bows. Make sure you check the top plates too.

Sometimes this process can take some time depending on the shower.

Then, this may create a potential issue: how it marries up to the drywall. See, once you've flattened the backer board it oftentimes doesn't match up with the drywall because that wasn't flattened.

So, I don't know what your bathroom looks like right now. If the drywall isn't installed then you can easily shim it out before installing. If it is installed, you may think about:
  1. cutting out a section of drywall immediately next to the shower and shimming it out
  2. cutting the screws off the end and trying to stuff drywall shims in behind it before installing the backer board

Finally, Wedi comes with their Subliner Dry membrane. I use it when I want their system warranty. Otherwise, I much prefer Noble ValueSeal (it has a new name now but I don't remember) for shower pan membranes.
__________________
James Upton
How-to mix a small batch of thinset perfectly, every time.
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-04-2022, 01:56 PM   #3
Shady at Best
Tyrone shoelaces
 
Shady at Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sacramento, ca
Posts: 753
Thanks for the reply. I couldn't upload last night due to laptop issues.

Here's the new tub. It's about 6 inches away from the wall I have moved the drain and faucet water supply since this photo. What wolf be the idea backer for tiling these 2 walls up to the 40"mark? Would green/ purple drywall be fine or should it be a cbu or other water resistant substrate?


Here's a few more pics. I should have better sealed up the cuts in the slab before pouring the self leveler. It found its way into the drain box for the tub and locked in the p trap. Oh well. Live and learn
__________________
Travis

It's just a clever handle.

Last edited by Shady at Best; 05-04-2022 at 02:02 PM.
Shady at Best is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-04-2022, 02:57 PM   #4
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,912
Plain drywall would work as it isn't a shower. Kerdiboard when dealing with a tile that large would be fine, as any pressure you would be applying would be spread out over that huge surface. I suggest you look for a slant-notched trowel so you don't have to move or push the tile as much to flatten the notches...a slant-notched trowel makes a much flatter gauged thinset surface.

I don't know what the current guidance for embedding a large format tile like that is, but originally, they recommended to use a palm sander, obviously without any sand paper on it! The vibrations helped embed the tile just using either the felt, or rubber pad they provide underneath the sandpaper.

You're going to want to pick up two suction cup lifting devices, as you can't be gripping the tile while trying to place it exactly where you want.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-04-2022, 03:15 PM   #5
Shady at Best
Tyrone shoelaces
 
Shady at Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sacramento, ca
Posts: 753
Jim
Thanks for the reply. I was kind of planning on drywall on the non shower section but I think I was chastised once before on this forum for saying that I was going to use moisture resistant drywall in a similar scenario.
Also, thanks for the palm sander tip. I will try that.

After thinking about this shower, I am thinking 1/2 hardi with kerdi membrane over it. I still need to frame in a pony wall or some other type of support in between the right side of the shower and where the tub is going. The customer wants a corner diagonal bench and I was thinking of using the 2"kerdi panel that I have along with the appropriate metal channel for support.
Here's a pic of the shower area. It's full of junk and will add a better pic tonight. The foam dam is not the actual outline of the shower.
The niche cutout is not the actual size of the niche. I made it over sized because I needed to finish the wall on the opposite side and I didn't want to deal with nail pops and other possible damage after I had finished the wall.

The shower area, and the before and after of the living room wall that's on the other side of the shower wall. Name:  IMG_20220418_102547_01.jpg
Views: 156
Size:  69.5 KBName:  20220422_164047.jpg
Views: 162
Size:  33.8 KBName:  20220427_152710.jpg
Views: 163
Size:  36.7 KB

Sent from my SM-S906U1 using Tapatalk
__________________
Travis

It's just a clever handle.
Shady at Best is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-04-2022, 03:48 PM   #6
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 95,335
I recall the testing of the palm sander for embedding Porcelain Tile Panels, Jim, and by the time we (TYW) attended a Crossville seminar for the use of such panels it had pretty much been decided that the vibrating sanders weren't really doing much good at all for the purpose. Certainly no reason someone can't try it, but don't get your hopes too high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis
...I think I was chastised once before on this forum for saying that I was going to use moisture resistant drywall in a similar scenario.
Don't know that you would have been chastised, Travis, but I'm sure someone would have mentioned that there would be no advantage at all to the use of MR Board in areas such as you're currently working on.

The only useful application I've ever found in interior applications for the greenboard was when the local code compliance inspector thought it was required in bathroom areas for his satisfaction.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-04-2022, 04:27 PM   #7
Shady at Best
Tyrone shoelaces
 
Shady at Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sacramento, ca
Posts: 753
Thanks cx. So the sanders don't work that well. Okay, is it safe to assume that the vibrator things I see in YouTube videos do work or help?
If yes, does anyone have a suggestion on which brand or which tool to purchase?

I believe that local code requires green board or equivalent within a certain distance of a shower or tub. I don't mind spending a few extra bucks for a few sheets around the tub.


Sent from my SM-S906U1 using Tapatalk
__________________
Travis

It's just a clever handle.
Shady at Best is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-04-2022, 04:44 PM   #8
smifwal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,743
Mix your thinset on the loose side and a rubber mallet to tap it in works just fine, or a wood float ( that is what we used when I took the class for the panels at stone peak) I would use ardex X5 or X77 if it were me. You also want a good set of suction cups I have a set similar to these

8 inch Vacuum Glass Suction Cup - 150 lbs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005HSP11S...NKTB6X1SGVR05V
__________________
Shawn
smifwal is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-05-2022, 07:11 AM   #9
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc
Registered Muser
 
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Issaquah, Washington
Posts: 7,237
Exactly what Shawn said. Get your walls flat, notch both surfaces, and use a mallet to beat them in.

I know this is probably more than what you want to spend but these suction cups are all the rage on social media for these huge tiles.

This particular one has a regulator on it so as it looses suction it starts back up again and resecures itself.
__________________
James Upton
How-to mix a small batch of thinset perfectly, every time.
Tiger Mountain Tile Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-05-2022, 01:53 PM   #10
Shady at Best
Tyrone shoelaces
 
Shady at Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sacramento, ca
Posts: 753
What do you think about this little wall to support a corner diagonal floating bench? What are these walls called? I have heard them called pony walls and wing walls.
I am debating the pros/ cons between framing with lumber and the covering it with hardi/kerdi membrane or building the wall with 2" kerdi panel but I don't think that 1 piece of 2" kerdi would be wide enough to provide support. I feel like one 2" piece approx 20" tall would want to lean in.
If I used 2" kerdi to build it I think I would first cover the back wall with hardi, then attach the kerdi 2" channel to the wall and use a 32wx20 tall piece of kerdi slid into the channel for the wall. I think I would then double up the 2" kerdi to add width and possibly rigidity. Then attach a diagonal piece of 2" kerdi for a floating bench, and then cover all seams with kerdi band or membrane.
My concerns with the pony wall being made of kerdi board is that it will not support the corner bench. But then again it should be fine.
I know the front exposed edge of the floating bench will have the 2" channel on it. Is there any reason or benefit of using 2 piece of 2" kb glied together with either thinset or kerdifix to build the wall? If i doubled up the 2" kb, should i use 2 strips of the channel to adhere it to the walls?
I am picturing using the channel on the horizontal edges and being able to screw it in to the wood framing on the left side but nothing to screw it in to on the pony wall side if I use kerdi panels to build the wall. But I also think this is over kill and not required.

Another question. This drain needs to be moved a few inches to the right towards the pony wall. I am thinking of using the horizontal kerdi drain and maybe cutting a small trench in the slab and then tie it in to the existing shower drain. I figure that this will be less work then digging up the existing drain/ p trap and moving it over. The only con is the need for a thick mortar base for the shower pan to allow for 2" waste pipe.
Any other pros/ cons?

Like usual I appreciate the insight. I know how to do this stuff and just looking for moral support and always looking for the best way to do this stuff. Plus I am stressing on these 2'x4' tile and really want everything perfect before I start setting tile.

Which does bring up another question about tying all the tile together when it comes to the face of the curb, the face of the pony wall, and the valve wall to curb intersection. But this post is long enough already.

Sent from my SM-S906U1 using Tapatalk
__________________
Travis

It's just a clever handle.
Shady at Best is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-05-2022, 03:27 PM   #11
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate

STAR Senior Contributor

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 14,912
KerdiFIx works well on an edge seam, but you would not really want to use it to laminate two sheets together, partly for the cost, and the ability to get full coverage...just use a quality thinset and consider a slant-notched trowel as you won't be able to apply much pressure psi, and moving the panels back and forth because of their size is really tough.

For a corner bench, if one wall is normal structural, attachment to the pony wall on the other edge should work. Schluter calls for using reinforcement across the front edge to keep the panel from bowing under application of weight.

INstead of a floating bench, had they considered one of their solid benches? Then, no load on the walls as the whole thing is structural.

I know from personal experience that KerdiFix once cured, has more than enough strength to hold a corner bench in place. A proper KerdiFix bond is probably 3x stronger than thinset, and is very slightly elastic which helps with thermal expansion issues.
https://youtu.be/kP5gjc656Y4
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.

Last edited by jadnashua; 05-05-2022 at 03:45 PM.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-06-2022, 06:47 AM   #12
ss3964spd
Moderator
 
ss3964spd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfax, Va
Posts: 5,097
Send a message via Yahoo to ss3964spd
I dunno, Travis, a conventionally framed pony wall would do the job of supporting the corner bench (look at Better Bench) and, if sized right, you could even incorporate a niche in it.
__________________
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent, but my ability to access it is intermittent.
ss3964spd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-06-2022, 01:56 PM   #13
Shady at Best
Tyrone shoelaces
 
Shady at Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sacramento, ca
Posts: 753
I am leaning towards a kerdi corner bench that goes all the way down to the ground. So I think my concerns about supporting the pony wall are no longer concerns.
Question about the height of the pony wall. How much higher than the bench should it be? I suppose it could be the same height as the bench but that might make tiling the top harder. I am picturing 1 piece of tile cover the whole thing if it's all 1 height which wouldn't be an easy piece of tile to cut correctly.

So now picturing the shower curd meeting up with both the pony wall and the valve wall. I am planning on bringing the curb all the way out flush with the pony wall. This will be a nice flat surface to tile.
But what about the valve wall? Usually I am using bullnose or trim tile and I bring a leg down in front of the curb or I line the bullnose on the wall up with the bullnose that covers the curb. But I am using a schluter edge trim. Could I still tie in the the trim on the outside of the curb up with the vertical edge trim that comes down the wall? I am trying to picture it and I think it will work. Or do I need to bring the wall tile or past the curb?
Reason for these questions now of that I am trying to center the drain according to where the curb goes.
Speaking of curbs. I am trying to make this shower pan larger and bringing the curb out as far as possible. The plan was to use 2 pieces of 2" kerdi board sandwiched together. I have had good luck with this in the past but what about just using 1 piece of 2"kerdi up on edge to make a skinnier curb and giving the shower pan another 2 inches of width.
And I had seen a video where they used 2"kerdi for the curb and they capped the kerdi with 1/2 hardi backer to give the shower door more support.

Any thoughts on these ideas? Please post any pictures of similar scenarios. I am a visual learner, hence why I can't picture these things.
Travis

Sent from my SM-S906U1 using Tapatalk
__________________
Travis

It's just a clever handle.
Shady at Best is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-09-2022, 01:19 PM   #14
Shady at Best
Tyrone shoelaces
 
Shady at Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sacramento, ca
Posts: 753
I need to move this vent pipe. It's a solid inch into the shower pan. My current plan is to cut it down to a 1/2 inch right above the concrete and then use 2 vent 90's to jog it into the wall and hopefully it will allow for a sheet of drywall to be brought down low enough to apply kerdi membrane and kerdi band.
Any one have another fix besides digging into the concrete and moving the pipe?
I forgot to mention firring the wall out an inch. Which looks like it's the game plan.
Thanks

Sent from my SM-S906U1 using Tapatalk
__________________
Travis

It's just a clever handle.

Last edited by Shady at Best; 05-09-2022 at 02:44 PM.
Shady at Best is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-10-2022, 07:47 AM   #15
ss3964spd
Moderator
 
ss3964spd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfax, Va
Posts: 5,097
Send a message via Yahoo to ss3964spd
The OCD in me would hate to give up that 1" of shower space but it does seem like furring the wall out is probably the best option.
__________________
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent, but my ability to access it is intermittent.
ss3964spd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Durock Shower System - Pebble Tile floor - What kind of grout? caverunner17 Tile Forum/Advice Board 16 12-22-2017 12:00 PM
Marble mosiac tile floor over Schluter Kerdi shower system mhousetile Tile Forum/Advice Board 9 09-03-2016 03:20 PM
schluter shower system & glass tile Ivy Tile Forum/Advice Board 10 08-22-2007 10:59 AM
Starting my shower tile job (suggestions?) nonstopaz Tile Forum/Advice Board 54 10-23-2005 08:22 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:03 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC