Mud Work Hints and Methods

[Ron Teti]

Guys I have a question, Im pretty much a backer board man but How do you explain to a client when mudding their kitchen floor that their gonna loose some of their toe kick height on their existing kitchen cabs. How do they normally react to it? How thick do you make the bed. Also how does it effect the transition into the next room. Ive had to make thresholds for some folks who have wood floors and had their kitchen mudded.But that was with raised foundations not slab on grade conditions.Do you just make thresholds and attach them with tap cons?

[John K]

Dave. What is different about the way that you float walls, vs John B?

[Dave Gobis]

I don't cheat.

[John Bridge]

What Dave it trying to say in his very banal way is the same thing I said earlier. He claims to go to the studs with the lath and do the scratch coat. 'Course Dave doesn't pull in a lot of work anymore, either.

Didn't mean it, Dave. I'm so glad you got here. These guys were about to hang me out to dry.

Many many moons ago I used to do mud work over a scratch on commercial work that was spec'ed out that way, so I do know how to do it. It's really not needed in residential, though. If you get up a moisture barrier between the mud and the rock, the shower will stand forever.

Dave, If I came over again, you'd probably throw me up against old Jack. You'd spend all your time referee-ing.

Ron,

I can't answer the question about the toe space except to say that if people want tile badly enough they'll accept it. A toe space of only a couple inches is perfectly functional as far as standing in front of the cabinet goes; it's just harder to clean.

John

I wanted to let you know that since that phone call long ago I have been doing my curbs with the patented JB method. Thanks for the tip!

[John K]

JB. How do you finish off a tub surround that has been floated over sheetrock and 12x12 marble installed? What do you use on the outside edge?

[John Bridge]

John,

In the high-end new homes I work on the edges are always marble slab done by the fabricator -- we work together. I put up the shower, keeping the mud as close to the wall as I can, and the fabricator installs the jambs when I've finished. If he has to build them out a bit, the difference is made up with caulking and paint. The fab guy is from Denmark, and he told me years ago not to worry so much about plumb. He wants the walls "strrraight!" Narrow pieces of marble slab won't bend.

I do get plumb, though.

I don't do marble in my everyday remodeling business. The folks don't have the money for it and the neighborhoods don't support it. We do an occassional marble or granite tile entryway.

I can't even imagine trying to put up a marble shower in a tract house. The walls are just too far out.

[John K]

JB.

Slab material. That makes perfect sense. Sweeeeeet.

I had a thought. (look out)! If a newbie wall mudder was to install his or her sheetrock. Then the poly and lath.
Now if they take a piece of 1/2" wood material and was able to poke a nail through each end, and nail it plumb to the wall. Wouldn't that give them a screed that wouldn't bend and make it much simpler for the newbie. Instead of putting a column of mud and trying to plumb up a float strip?

[John Bridge]

That would be simpler, John, but you can't do it, and I can't do it. I've done my share of drywall, too, and I've never been able to put up a sheetrock wall that straight and on-plane. Don't try to re-invent the wheel here.

On the other hand, we do use a "stop" like that at the outside edges of the walls. I put three or four drywall nails through them and shim them plumb with bits of carboard from the tile boxes. You then run your straightedge from that to a single "float strip" that has been imbedded about 6 inches from the other end of that wall, which is almost always an inside corner.

There are plenty of pics in my book, but the next time I mud a shower -- may be a couple weeks -- I'll have Albert take pics. I'll have to make sure his grubby hands are clean before he handles my digicam.

[John K]

Yeah I saw the pics. I thought if it could work on the outside it could work on the inside. Mark my words. Someone will invent this. He is probably lurking about in the JB forums. Just like the dude that invented the " quick pitch
system for floating shower floors.

Please do have Albert take step by step pics of you floating a shower. It would be good to add to the Liberry.
I'm sure Dave Gobis wont laugh. Too much!

Thanks John.

[John Bridge]

Gobis has been out of it so long all his trowels probably have rust on them. He's an executive now, you know.

One problem with trying to run a half-inch stick inside the tiled area is that the lath would be behind it. Some sort of float strip is definitely the way to go. It's been going on for a couple hundred years in this country.

I have heard of guys making mud screeds on the wall, but that would take longer to do, and you could accidentally dig into them with the straightedge.

[floorman1]

hey fellas been awhile,i'mstill stuck on what harry said about the schoole offer ing that kind of traing.I'm from st.louis union local 1310 floorlayers and the school here does'nt offe rmuch in the mudding category.I was fortunate eneough to work with some guys who knew how to do it and learned some quality stuff.Wehad an instructor a few years back from california who taught for a while but he went back.The market here for mud is not very high some high end residential and fewer commercial jobs give the opprtunity to that sort of work.Like john said though the lack of people with the knowledge for this sort of thing provides the ones who do ahve it with the opportunity for mo money,in the sense of more hours worked .So good thread john keep em coming!

[John K]

John B.

There is your warning. From the Rump Ranger.

[drew]

Are you shakin in your boots yet John? Why does this Byrne guy get to make the rules??

Course my motto is, rules were meant to be broken!! That's why they made 'em in the first place.

[tileguytodd]

I think ol Mike just checked in on ya there John.-Even if he was wearin a Mask