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Unread 03-11-2015, 04:18 PM   #1
Timmay2
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Replacing cookie cutter with drop in tub and tile shower, underlayment questions.

Good day,

I've been reading lots here, saw lots of videos on youtube, and see a lot of information that may or may not be applicable. Thank you all for this great resource and sharing your knowledge. I am an informed DIY'er, but I haven't done tile showers in my history, and haven't been able to piece together the best actions for my situation.

House is a 1996 build, concrete slab, Phoenix Arizona.

We are gutting the cookie-cutter builder config and putting in a tile shower with drop in tub, they share half the bathroom in a 9x4' area, butting up against each other. Tub area will be 4x5, shower area about 4x4. Time is not a huge problem so I'm all for doing the manual work rather than drop in kerdi. I see a lot of wood subfloor installs and showers that are fully enclosed, so have a few questions about our specific concrete slab & shared with tub side.

Were i'm at, is the room is gutted, the edges for concrete board are blocked, and we've adjusted the plumbing to the new locations. So its tub build up and shower pan time.


1. Drop in tub - I am framing this out with 2x4/2x10's, and placing a thin barrier (material not yet chosen) where it meets the concrete subfloor. It will be covered with hardie, redguard, thinset and then tiled. Concerns with this or better ways to approach ?

2. After drop in is framed out, I will build a curb from the corner of the drop-in tub framing across the shower opening. Knowing this "curb" butts against an exterior wall on one end, and the framing for the drop in tub on the other, should that change the material composition? I am considering the usual (3) 2x4 with barrier on bottom, covered in metal mesh, mortar, redguard, tileset, tile, but am not sure on where the curb meets the tub. Tape with redguard. Any concerns with this ?


3. For the shower pan, since the floor is already concrete (not sloped), and level with the walkway, do I need to do both preslope and top mud or can we skip straight to this bottom to top layout: concrete slab, thinset for adhesion, mortar sloped at 1/4" per ft, redguard, thinset, tile? Concerned with doing both a preslope and a top mud and the shower being several inches higher than the walking surface.

3. when using redguard with concrete board (hardie is the commonplace here), do I still avoid touching the CB to the bottom? Just tape and thinset and reguard over the gaps at bottom? I read that the bottom should be open so water can drain from back of the CB, but is that an issue when topsealing with redguard or only a pvc problem?

I may have more questions, but this should get me through the next week or so of free time. Thank you for any input!
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Unread 03-12-2015, 12:28 AM   #2
Kman
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Tim, are the tub and shower going to share a wall? If so, does that wall come up just to the height of the tub? That's going to be a very important point that needs to be addressed when it comes to waterproofing.

If you're planning on using Redgard as your primary liner, you wouldn't need the blocking, although it doesn't hurt to have it. You'll notice in page 4 of the Redgard instructions, the Redgard goes up behind the cement board. I'm not sure how that is supposed to work, other than to paint it on the blocking. It would seem that having it go up the face of the cement board would be a better option. In either case, there is still a pre-sloped bed of mud on top of the Redgard.

If you do in fact use Redgard, I would caution you that Hardibacker tends to draw the moisture out of it very quickly. For that reason, you would need to use a primer coat of Redgard. Don't forget that when you get to that stage in your project.
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Unread 03-12-2015, 10:49 AM   #3
Timmay2
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Thanks for the reply,

Yes tub and shower will share a wall - the idea is on the back of the surface for the drop in tub there will be a small lip, 3-4", and the glass of the shower will rest on it. Not quite a knee wall, just level with the tub surface. I plan to tape/thinset/redguard essentially the entire half of the bathroom that has the tub and shower, and of course silicone the screw holes when the glass rail is put on it.

Yes it looks like it goes behind, like the walls were blocked, redguarded, then the CBU put in place. I can certainly do that. I do plan to build the pan before CBU'ing the wall. I imagine this is so if moisture does ever get behind the CBU coated in redguard, it can drain down the backside and out into the pan?

I will be sure to prime the CBU, thanks.
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Unread 03-12-2015, 03:08 PM   #4
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You might think twice about putting any holes in the top of your "not quite a knee wall" for the glass. If possible, avoid it but be sure it is supported by the wall with blocking/stud behind it.

My glass guys didn't put any holes in my curb (you essentially have a tallish curb there) but supported things from the wall. Something to chew on.

You'll also want to angle the top of that wall 1/4"/foot to drain back into the shower.
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Unread 03-12-2015, 05:00 PM   #5
Timmay2
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Will do the slope there. Where are the mount points on your glass then? Specifically the static pieces on the right? Is it just the two brackets from glass to veritical for the ~1 ft long piece on the right, then the brackets from that piece to ~2ft long curved piece? With the ~2 ft long piece not secured to the ground at all? I'm not sure I'd trust myself to hang glass like that. I'm undecided if we will do glass ourselves or bring in specialist on that. I did look through your install entirely, looks great!
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Unread 03-12-2015, 06:04 PM   #6
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You pretty much found all the contact points for my shower glass in my thread:

2 for the door
1 for the mitered corner stationary glass
2 for the short width glass to the wall

The stationary glass also sits on some clear rubber mounts and then the whole gap was filled with clear silicone. That's it!

I had all that installed by the glass guys...not my area of specialty but as I observed them, it didn't really look too hard. I think it is key to have the right hardware and a good helper.
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