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Old 05-02-2019, 06:46 AM   #121
CSS
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This makes me curious as I use kerdi a lot. I often leave my pans full over the weekend and have never lost any water except the one time I used an adapter drain and connected it wrong. How does it work for steam rooms if not water proof?
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Old 06-08-2019, 07:18 AM   #122
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I've been using sheet membranes lately and have painted the seams with mapei aqua defence. Had a 5 day leak test due to homeowner restricting access over a long weekend, zero wicking due to liquid membrane around the perimeter.

Need some rubber duckies.

@CSS, steam has different properties in the molecular structure, can get through objects that are otherwise impermeable to water. I'd have thought sheet membrane wouldn't let steam through but haven't run/read the tests or touched into steam room design.
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Old 06-08-2019, 09:39 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo
How does it work for steam rooms if not water proof?
Kerdi is waterproof, Robo, but technically it is not suitable for continuous use steam showers according to tile industry standards. It requires a secondary vapor barrier material behind it in that application, which I think one of the least reasonable steps I've ever seen the industry take.

As Mark points out, water vapor is a very different animal from water. The perm rating, the amount of vapor the membrane allows to pass, on Kerdi is above the current limit of 0.5 perms for continuous use steam showers. Still below 1.0, which us older folks still count as being the limit for a vapor barrier, but higher than some of the other membranes on the market, such as Durock Shower Membrane, which does qualify for continuous use steam applications.

Mark, painting a secondary membrane over the seams in a Kerdi installation might make a fella feel better, but I don't think it's a good idea, nor is it necessary to make the Kerdi shower waterproof. Steam? Different issue.
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Old 06-08-2019, 01:43 PM   #124
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I've used liquid on a few seams through the years, particularly on the one I did with the Kerdi wide roll.

The walls were done with one long piece, and they overlapped the floor which was one long piece. I decided to forego the preformed corners altogether and just hit the corners with some Redgard.
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Old 06-08-2019, 04:49 PM   #125
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@cx,

Yes I've been wondering about that. If there was a potential issue with the fleece bond or membrane releasing. The system I use offers a liquid membrane to use and doesn't require their proprietary system (actually warranties under mapei thinset)

Unfortunately the building code here is law, and sheet overlapping is not something the councils accept without a codemarked certificate and the wedi sheet membrane requires an inch of sealant over the sheet joints.

If the council doesn't like something, they will fail it

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Old 06-08-2019, 06:22 PM   #126
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Mark, I was addressing only the Kerdi membrane, which I thought was the one under discussion. I know nothing at all about your Wedi membrane.

As for code, Schluter has an ICC ES Report saying their Kerdi "System" meets building code requirements when installed per the manufacturer's instructions. Your code compliance officials should have no problem with that. And those instructions do not include the use of any liquid-applied membrane over any of the Kerdi seams, so if your officials want to fault anything, it would be the use of that liquid.

That would apply here in the US of A and I admit to knowing absolutely nothing about code compliance in Kiwi Land.
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Old 06-08-2019, 06:25 PM   #127
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Ah yes that makes sense.

The membrane in question was profoil by progress profiles, wedi only launched this year in my country (10 days ago in fact) and schluter systems are not here yet. I did wonder if there was a technical issue with paint on membranes and sheet.

Sheer majority of sheet membrane seem to be identical asides from colour.

As for code compliance, you can't discount personal grudges. If a product such as redgard is specced, they don't want you to change that.


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Old 06-08-2019, 07:59 PM   #128
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Quote:
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Sheer majority of sheet membrane seem to be identical asides from colour.
Not at all true of the USG Durock Shower System Membrane, Mark. Thinner membrane. Lower perm rating. I find it easier to install. Better product.
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Old 06-08-2019, 08:49 PM   #129
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Not at all true of the USG Durock Shower System Membrane, Mark. Thinner membrane. Lower perm rating. I find it easier to install. Better product.
Nothing says "waterproof" like battleship gray!!
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Old 06-08-2019, 09:32 PM   #130
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Good to know!

We're backwards.

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Old 06-08-2019, 09:39 PM   #131
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No, not backwards. Upside-down, eh?

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Old 06-09-2019, 06:36 AM   #132
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Hi Mark.

I remember from years ago you folks down under were ahead of us in shower waterproofing, and I think you've had more years of experience with liquid membranes. In any case, welcome to the land of round door knobs.
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Old 06-09-2019, 11:59 AM   #133
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Hi Mark.



I remember from years ago you folks down under were ahead of us in shower waterproofing, and I think you've had more years of experience with liquid membranes. In any case, welcome to the land of round door knobs.
Thankyou for the warm welcome John!.

Yes, liquid membranes are still the norm. I am familiar with setting methods in the USA due to the Facebook groups and assisting with tile advice over on reddit, have to say I'm surprised pan liners and vapour barriers are still in use today. They have some benefits as literally every shower has been lined with drywall, and often the setter failed to place a slip joint under the dry pack, especially when working over timber subfloors but I digress. Easy to go off topic

Enjoying my time with kerdi style sheet membranes but can't see most people using them over the liquid. Not as easy as painting on liquid and bond breakers versus changing to wallpaper.

Wedi on the other hand. That's going to get big. Just need to convince builders to stop using green plasterboard on walls (cement board is almost never used) and to let us do our own prep and lining.




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Old 06-09-2019, 12:01 PM   #134
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No, not backwards. Upside-down, eh?



That's our big brother, the West Island, they were dropped on their heads as a baby

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Old 06-09-2019, 01:33 PM   #135
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