Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 05-12-2015, 09:23 AM   #1
stellium
Uber Tilemaster Wanna-be
 
stellium's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Montreal, Qc
Posts: 14
Repair help- Mortar bed under Kerdi

Guys,

a shower I built three years ago heaved on a client of mine. I fear that there might have been a frost problem (59 consecutive days below freezing here in the Northeast). In any case, it's a rather delicate repair issue. The major part of the base sounds fine (nice dense tone when struck). About a 1 square foot area adjacent to the drain has heaved (sounds hollow). Floor is a 1 X 1 tile on mesh backing. I discussed the repair mid April with Marc-Andre, the local Schluter rep - Sidebar, I found out yesterday that he lost his battle with cancer last week -

I have some kerdi-fix to bond a new piece of membrane to existing.

My questions are 1. What should I use as a substrate (Mortar bed , 4:1 sand to Portland cement? Other?)
2-If the membrane starts to peel off the existing mortar bed, is there some way to affix it or is the bond shot?
3- Any ideas on how to re-install the 1 X 1 Ttiles? They are no longer available, and I'm trying to avoid changing the tiles wholesale.

Anyhow. this is the first one that has ever done this to me. Any advice in executing this repair would be greatly appreciated

I have attached some pics to illustrate what I'm faced with

Thanks
Attached Images
  
__________________
Jacques
Stellium Renovations
Montreal Bathrooms and Kitchens
Schluter waterproofing Systems Installer
www.stellium.ca

Last edited by stellium; 05-12-2015 at 10:55 AM.
stellium is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 05-12-2015, 10:12 AM   #2
cpad007
hack of some trades
 
cpad007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,245
So a mortar bed and then Kerdi on top of it was the pan construction, correct?

What is the mortar bed sitting on?
__________________
Chris

DIYer-us Extrem-us Non-Pro-us

Chris' Orange Tile Project
cpad007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2015, 10:29 AM   #3
Kman
Moderator
 
Kman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NW Arkansas, Ozark Mountains
Posts: 11,956
Hello, Jacques.

Some questions can be answered only after the demolition. With everything still covered up, it's hard to say what will work and won't work.

I'd start by raking out as much grout as possible and very carefully pulling up the tile. You're going to have a difficult time removing those tile without damaging them (none left over from your work?) and you may have to start over by the drain to get them pulled up.

You're going to damage the Kerdi anyway, so you can cut out the area that's exposed, see what you have there, then we can tell you how to proceed.
__________________
Kevin

The top ten reasons to procrastinate:

1.
Kman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2015, 10:39 AM   #4
Carbidetooth
Hmmmmm
 
Carbidetooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,632
Jacques, I'd want to figure out just what happened so I could consider it in repair.

Is this a slab on grade or suspended wood floor?
__________________
Peter

Silicone (not silicon) Sealant Ranger
Carbidetooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2015, 10:48 AM   #5
stellium
Uber Tilemaster Wanna-be
 
stellium's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Montreal, Qc
Posts: 14
Current status

Guys,

Tile shower is located in a basement adjacent to an exterior wall, about 55" or so below grade. Mortar bed was deposited directly on raw unpainted slab and then mortar was applied to adhere kerdi membrane from kerdi-drain to edge of floor. Proper overlap was maintained at all seams.

There are a couple of loose tiles and so I expect to be able to pry the tiles off the membrane for re-use. The membrane seems to have lost adherence to the mortar bed, although I won't really know if it was a breakdown in the bond between mortar and membrane, or some other cause. If it was a slab heave, or frost under mortar bed then this might get complicated, although that would indicate that the mortar bed to membrane bond likely hasn't been the cause.

I wanted to get an idea before I tore it up. Unfortunately, no additional finishing materials were left over/ kept. I figured that although it would be a raging pain, I could likely recover the tiles as long as the repair area doesn't grow too large. Anybody ever install loose 1 X 1"s ?

I was hoping that someone out there had come across something similar so they could share what worked for them.

Let me know what you think
__________________
Jacques
Stellium Renovations
Montreal Bathrooms and Kitchens
Schluter waterproofing Systems Installer
www.stellium.ca
stellium is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2015, 11:27 AM   #6
cpad007
hack of some trades
 
cpad007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,245
Being that far below grade, do you really think frost developed?

Do you have any shots of the whole shower or just further back?
__________________
Chris

DIYer-us Extrem-us Non-Pro-us

Chris' Orange Tile Project
cpad007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2015, 12:42 PM   #7
Carbidetooth
Hmmmmm
 
Carbidetooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,632
What's typical frost depth where you are, Jacques? Was structure unheated? Seems unlikely that a frost heave would go that deep and not cause other issues. I wonder if you've got some hydrostatic pressure under there.
__________________
Peter

Silicone (not silicon) Sealant Ranger
Carbidetooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2015, 01:49 PM   #8
stellium
Uber Tilemaster Wanna-be
 
stellium's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Montreal, Qc
Posts: 14
Frost depth

Guys,

The frost depth n Montreal is 48", the slab is around 55" to 60" below grade, which doesn't leave a whole lot of margin. One wall of the shower is built on a stud wall next to the foundation. The bathroom is heated using an electric convector, although the shower door is kept closed and thus heat does not flow directly into shower stall. It's not cold, just not directly receiving heat.

Also, this house has had slab settlement/movement issues in other areas of the basement. In one area floor tiles over an existing crack w/o membrane has not seen the crack transmitted through in 11 years. Another part of the basement had a portion of the floor broken up to remove a bump, and then repaired in order to install laminate flooring. Some movement might have occurred

I'm having another Schluter rep come and look at it later this week. I'll let you know what he says.
__________________
Jacques
Stellium Renovations
Montreal Bathrooms and Kitchens
Schluter waterproofing Systems Installer
www.stellium.ca
stellium is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-12-2015, 06:10 PM   #9
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 93,590
Welcome, Jacques.

Don't think we're gonna be able to help you much until you determine what the actual problem is, eh? And that's certainly gonna require some demo. After the Schluter rep comes to look, of course.

I'm inclined to agree with Peter in Post #7.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need to repair a few gouges in 60's mortar bed pharmerK Tile Forum/Advice Board 3 02-04-2015 02:23 PM
Repair mortar shower pan Rdittman7 Tile Forum/Advice Board 11 04-19-2014 07:37 PM
How to Repair a Mortar Bed Skipper Tile Forum/Advice Board 3 07-18-2009 02:49 PM
Mortar bed repair bobbyp68 Tile Forum/Advice Board 9 06-22-2009 06:19 PM
Can I Repair/Reuse old mortar bed breilly79 Tile Forum/Advice Board 7 08-27-2008 04:53 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:43 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC