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Old 12-29-2011, 02:55 PM   #1
wesson123970
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Wes's Small Bathroom Remodel

Guys,

I'm brand new here. I've begun the process of remodeling our 2nd bathroom.
It's only about 12x6 or so....tub just squeezes in.
i've torn out all the old tile around tub wall and floor down to the studs and joists.
since i found a lot of floor rot, i went ahead and busted up the old tub and removed it too. rest of walls are still intact....only wanna tile inside shower/tub area and the floor.i have a few questions.
i got so many different answers on what to do as far as vapor/moisture barrier on shower wall, that i finally called the local building inspector(tho i didnt give my name or address...not gonna have inspected).
he said i needed to have Tyvec housewrap overtop of the studs(and non-faced insulation on wall---it's on an outside wall). everything i else i read said 4mil poly for outside walls...but he said that would trap moisture...he also said let it go all the way to the floor..not seal to tub lip.\
here are my questions:

1.tyvec ok?

2. On one side of tub the studs are 1in from being flush w/ wall--planning to put on 1/2 plywood,then tyvec,then 1/2 hardibacker..then i'll be flush w/ wall beside it.

3.on opposite of of tub, the studs are 5/8 from being flush w/ wall--not sure best way to do that....it needs to have the 1/2 hardibacker right?....i guess just come up w/ some type of wood shim that 1/8 huh?....then put Tyvec, then 1/2 hardibacker.

4.now to the floor, which i'm working on now.....i've cut the floor out flush to the sole plates all the way around. i'll put 2x4 blocking anywhere around perimeter there is nothing to nail to....so subfloor is supported all the way around....will do the same on any seams. on one wall that the joists run horizontal to, i'm planning to put mini-joists going perpendicular to the main joists, nailed going from that last joist to the side of house(not sure how else to word that??) then i'll put blocking inbetween the "mini-joists" next to that wall's sole plate, so i can nail that floor edge down. btw, joists are 2x10 16in OC.
anyway...i wanna make sure i'm doing that right?..that's the only way i see to get the support for the floor right there....sure ought to be plenty sturdy!

5.Here's my main question out of all of this. I have the old cast iron pipe for toilet. measuring bottom lip of flange to joist, it's about 1 3/8 or so....btw, the flange is partially broken so i'll have to put one of those "super" rings on i think...anyway, does my floor have to come up perfect to the flange lip?..wondering what kind of leway i have in this...i'm thinking i'll use 3/4 osb, then 1/2 plywood on top(or vise versa?)...then 1/4 in hardibacker and the tile..too much?....that's an 1 1/2 in ,minus the tile and thinset. i'm also planning to put the hardibacker, but not tile, underneath the tub for added protection from water for the floor...that ok?
as far as the hallway floor....the floor was raised before and i dont really mind it being raised....in my mind, that means right stuff was probably used?...i can put a nice marble block on the threshold right?...that's what i've seen in most places.

thanks for any help guys!
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:52 PM   #2
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1) Tyvek is OK, I prefer 4 or 6 mil poly sheeting. Put the sheeting up in 2 sections: the lower section from the floor to 6 or more inches above the tub lip. Install the tub , then the rest of the poly so it overlaps the tub's nailing flange and goes to the ceiling.

2) Rip the plywood into 2" strips and apply them to the studs. It makes everything else easier.

3) Yes, something like that. Still, try to find some plywood material. Less likely to split when you screw the backerboard through it.

4) Your plan sounds fine.

5) Make life easier for yourself: remove the old cast iron pipe and replace with PVC. You can glue in a riser into the closet flange, leave it a bit long, then cut it off after the finished floor is in place. This gives you more flexibility with the floor height. As for waterproofing the floor, go all the way or stay home. You won't do much good waterproofing a portion of the floor if you leave the sill plates un-sealed and provide a place for the water to go.
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:19 PM   #3
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Thanks for the reply bbcamp!

got a couple more questions

2. so it's actually ok to install hardibacker directly to the studs? of course i'll have the plywood strips over my studs. the hardibacker doesnt have to be screwed down in more places than just the studs would permit?

5. removing the cast iron pipe. so the pipe goes from there on out to the yard...at what point in pipe should i remove?...how should i remove?..cut pipe?..have to cut w/ a chain wrench?...and how will i splice the pvc in?

sorry for so many question on that.
is it a good idea to go ahead and put the hardibacker under the tub and seal the perimeter w/ caulk or something?....you're right, it definitely woulndt help much if water could go right under!

thanks
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:24 PM   #4
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Welcome, Wes.

2. You'll really wanna review the Hardibacker 500 installation instructions before you go any further. And follow them. Yes, you install directly over the moisture barrier that is over the wall framing.

5. I would remove the CI pipe as far as is convenient. Couple to new pipe with a Fernco-type coupling.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:11 PM   #5
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cut pipe?...where?

thanks for reply CX

so I'd need to cut the pipe right?..i'm sure there's no way to open at a joint anywhere...it's the older cast iron...doesn't have the screw on clamps....i think they pour some type of molten or something at joints to seal them?...not sure.
so definitely need to cut?...what would i cut with.
i think i'd cut it right there as it goes down....leave the part where the tub and sink drains tie into it.

thanks in advance!
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:51 AM   #6
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another question

hey guys,

another question about the floor....

1.the minimum subfloor thickness is supposed to be 1 1/8 right?
is hardibacker (or whatever backer i use---planning to use hardi-seems cleaner/neater/easier)included as part of the subfloor?....or do i add that the 1 1/8.

2. i'm also wondering about using liguid membrame, rather than backerboard...any ideas?
was wondering also if the liguid membrame doubled as a liguid floor leveler also...(btw, my bathroom is only 9ft x 5ft...very small..i said 6ft earlier, but it's 5...tub really does barely squeeze in.)
that being said, is floor leveler even necessary for such a small space?...the joists are all pretty much level, but it's not perfect all the way around(bubble is within the lines tho!)....wondered if needed to use a liguid leveler wafter get subfloor down.

3. is osb ok to use as long as i dont use it as my tiling surface?

sorry so much info guys....

so basically,
1.subfloor thickness
2.liquid membrame and/or leveler?
3. osb underneath ok?

CX, i'm still waiting on your reply on the CI pipe....i can see it would definitely be easier on me if was able to work w/ the floor i come up w/ as opposed to working around that pipe!
read a few things about cutting....i have a sawzall and circular saw, but none of those are gonna work right?..and i'm afraid it's too old/worn to use a chain cutter...afraid will shatter....thinking i may just buy an angle grinder and use that...would need some type of diamond blade?
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:03 AM   #7
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On the cast iron pipe: you can rent pipe cutters to make your cut where convenient or fit your angle grinder with a metal cutting abrasive blade. If it is really that fragile, perhaps you need to replace all of it.

1) Hardibacker instructions allow you to install it over properly installed subfloors 5/8" thick. I recommend 3/4" where possible.

2) The rule for floor flatness is no more than 1/4" out of plane in any 10 foot direction and no more than 1/16" in any 1 foot direction. Liquid levelers (SLC or self leveling concrete) may be a solution, especially if the floor is generally level. Measure with the longest straight edge you can fit in there and report back what you find.

3) Yes.
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:03 AM   #8
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thanks bbcamp!

i dont know about the pipe, but was built in 67, so didnt wanna take any chances....i suppose i'll try the angle grinder, since less likely to shatter pipe if it is at all brittle.

1. on the subfloor...i definitely should use 2 different sheets right?...not 1 sheet 5/8 or 3/4?.
my understanding is there needs to be 2 sheets independant of each other(1st one nailed to joists, 2nd one not). is that right?
thinking 1/2 osb and 1/4 plywood, if that's the case?...or maybe even do 1/2 ply too? man, i dont know!

2. as far as leveling, i'd add the liquid leveler over my final piece of subfloor right(before backerboard).

3.liquid membrames as good as backer?.....wonder if should do that rather than the backer at all?....or wonder if should do both?

thanks guys!
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:27 AM   #9
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what thickness/how many sheets subfloor

Hey guys,

redoing a small bathroom...have it completely gutted now.
cut my floor to the sole plate....placing blocking to nail new floor to now.


1. on the subfloor...i definitely should use 2 different sheets right?...not 1 sheet 5/8 or 3/4?.
my understanding is there needs to be 2 sheets independant of each other(1st one nailed to joists, 2nd one not). is that right?
thinking 1/2 osb and 1/4 plywood, if that's the case?...or maybe even do 1/2 ply too? man, i dont know!

2. as far as leveling, i'd add the liquid leveler over my final piece of subfloor right(before backerboard)?

3.liquid membrames as good as backer?.....wonder if should do that rather than the backer at all?....or wonder if should do both?

4.also....my toilet flange is broken on really old('67) cast iron pipe. i've had suggestions to cut pipe and splice in PVC while i'm at it so i dont have to adjust my floor thickness for that....work in opposite direction.i'm planning to either try a sawzall(seems safer than angle grinder) or possibly just remove the flange itself...saw a video online of a guy doing by just drilling out the lead in the joint (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIa1sTMenXc)
(dont wanna use chain pipe cutter cuz it's so old...dont want it to crack/split on me)
any suggestions?
here are a couple of pics

thanks guys!
Attached Images
  
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Old 12-31-2011, 08:10 AM   #10
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Hi, Wes!

1) What kind of tile are you installing? Ceramic/porcelain or stone? That makes a difference.

2 & 3) If you have the subfloor is out, it is better to sister the joists to level/flatten the floor. SLC is OK over some backerboards, but if you intend to use it over the subfloor, consider making it thick enough to act as the underlayment and skip the backerboard.

4) I agree with removing the old cast iron if you think it that brittle. Remove it all the way to the stack. Drilling out the lead in the joint is one way to do it, as is using a metal cutting blade on your sawzall or an abrasive wheel on your grinder.
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Old 12-31-2011, 01:47 PM   #11
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Wes, it'll help if you'll keep all your project questions on one thread so folks can see what you're working on and what's been previously asked and answered.
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:22 PM   #12
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thanks for the reply Bob,

Sorry CX, I'll definely keep it all here from now on.

Bob, I'm planning to use ceramic tile.

I guess i'm concerned too, with what'd need to be done to lay a new tile floor 10yrs down the road....i'd hate to think the subfloor had to be completely torn up again....be better if whoever was replacing(me or someone else), could get by w/ just replacing a layer of sub.

Is waterproofing membrame, like Redgard really good?....good or better than backer board?
oh...and is backer board considered part of the subfloor......5/8 to 3/4 minimum on subfloor right?...do you add the backerboard to that equation?

Man i cant believe how slow i work...i got a lot done today, but still putting in blocking tho....will finish that up tomorrow and hopefully go buy the subfloor...and work on my pluming/wiring some.

thanks for the replies guys

Happy New Year!
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:07 AM   #13
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well, i was able to get that cast iron flange off. drilled a few holes in the lead and was able to work the lead, then oil rag out of it...pulled right off!
gonna buy a pvc flange for it...i should have plenty of leway w/ that huh?...as long as floor comes above pipe some, i should be good?

just wanted to let y'all know

planning to finish blocking and doing some plumbing/wiring....havent made decision on what size or how many sheets of subfloor to go with...
thinking i will prob do a sheet of 5/8 osb on bottom and 1/4 plywood(sanded pine??) on top of that....then my backerboard(or Redgard?).or both?
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes
Is waterproofing membrame, like Redgard really good?....good or better than backer board?
Different products for different purposes, Wes, not an interchangeable sorta thing.

There are sheet membranes that will replace your CBU, and they can be made waterproof if you like.

I would never start a subfloor with anything less than 3/4" plywood or OSB. On top of that you can add a minimum of 3/8ths" exterior glue plywood if you like. I prefer half-inch. There is no 1/4" plywood commonly available that is suitable for the application.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:55 PM   #15
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Thanks CX.

HD's Tiling 1-2-3 book says use 3/4 osb/plywood w/ 1/4 sanded plywood over that.
I did see some 1/4 sanded plywood today at HD.
They're also saying use the 1/4 backerboard on top of all that(they never mention liquid membrame of any sort)....maybe that's the difference?

would you bother going under tub w/ the backer?....have no tub right now....not sure if shoud just wait til i put the tub in before even installing the backer, or just do the whole floor w/ backer.

Thanks guys!
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