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Old 06-09-2019, 08:36 AM   #1
alexava
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Real stone outdoor vertical questions.

I havenít been around here lately but about to take on another task. My neighborhood entrance sign has been neglected for several years. Myself and a couple of nonlazy neighbors have cleaned up the greenery and washed the brick. Itís a very solid concrete block wall and has or had sections with real stone on it. Most of the stones have fallen off with mortar still attached to the stone but not the concrete block wall. I am appointed to reinstall the stone. It is next to impossible to clean the mortar off the stone. I was tinkering with the idea of using outdoor thinset like Iím tiling a backsplash. .... this is where you pros usually tell me what kind of thinset to use or why I shouldnít do it. Thanks in advance.
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:06 AM   #2
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Pictures always help.
Sounds like the mortar broke bond from the block. Best to get the old mortar off the old stones using a grinder with a masonry blade and chisel. When you go to place them back wet the block first then set your stones with a type s mortar.
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:17 AM   #3
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I just realized I put this in wrong forum
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:34 AM   #4
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And thanks.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:39 PM   #5
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:40 PM   #6
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:43 PM   #7
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This neighborhood was developed in 2005. I assume the structure was built around then. The stones still attached near the ground pull off with no effort. The opposite end of the sign is still intact.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:14 PM   #8
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I would grind as much of the old mud off of the wall and the stone pieces. Fat mud alone doesn't bond real well and is probably what they originally used. I would apply thinset to the stone and the wall just before adding the fat mud and mashing the pieces in place.
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:32 PM   #9
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I have no idea what fat mud is. Thanks for the reply.
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Old 06-11-2019, 05:48 AM   #10
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Fat mud is what a brick or stone mason would use. We also use it in tile work although the sand we use is a little courser. It contains sand, Portland cement and lime, usually around 4 to 1 to 1 but each person may fine tune the mix to their liking.

It makes a good filler but doesn't bond well unless the surface you're sticking to is very rough. Then it can key in and anchor similar to mudding over a scratch coat. Adding thinset to the wall and stone helps the fat mud bond better. I have also heard of adding thinset to the fat mud.
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:08 AM   #11
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Chris, what part of the country are you in? Do you see a good bit of freeze-thaw out your way?
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:58 AM   #12
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North Alabama. Itís hotter than hell most of the time. We have several freezes during the winter mixing in many 60degree days.
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:09 PM   #13
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I am only wanting to get these stones to adhere. The sign is so far off the road I donít care about what it looks like up close. Unless we get more volunteers I doubt Iíll take the time to clean the old mortar off. I will try a chipping hammer first. But thatís a lot of grinding.
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Old 06-11-2019, 01:14 PM   #14
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Chris, if you end up not completely removing the existing mortar from the backs of the stone, all bets are off on predicting longevity. From the sound of it, that may not be a deal breaker, but its worth mentioning.

I'm partial to Davy's method of making a mortar and fat mud sandwich. Just make sure to use a large format tile mortar suitable for the environment. Two-component mortar systems like our Kerabond T/Keralastic have the best resistance to temperature fluctuations.
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Old 06-11-2019, 07:30 PM   #15
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Thanks. Iím not sure what Iíll do here. This is a neighborhood with about 200+ homes. Myself and one other couple have taken on the Work. With others saying they would help but not coming through. One man has pledged 100$. If I do this work it will have to be funded by others. Again the time and grinding wheels are probably going to make me say ďforget it ď. If I could slap some thinset on and jam the stone in as is, Iím more likely to take it on. The developer bailed years ago and thereís no hoa.
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