Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 12-31-2005, 09:11 AM   #1
chapperstx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4
(and another)....Bath Remodel

First, thank you to the forum members for what you guys are doing here! This is by far the most comprehensive site I've found so far...

now that i got y'all buttered up...we are venturing out on a remodel job, adding about 1000sq ft to our existing. Good news is that the entire master
bath will be in the new construction part. We are located just outside of Austin, TX, and the house is on pier and beam. currently the house is all wood floor, but I would like to tile the master bath at a minimum.

Looking around here, I'm already sold on the KERDI for the shower (my next stop is the online store to order the book and download the kerdi book..) but I also want to make sure my subfloor is done right. Currently, Im planning on my floor joists as 2x6x12 on 16" OC. I will have a new pier every 6 ft for support. With the Deflecto using a 6' length because of my pier layout, it comes out at L/1119!! This is a correct calculation right??

Also, heard rumors/been told/read somewhere else/ that i have to do something "special" since I am on Pier and Beam...Is that what Ditra would be suitable for? Since its an uncoupling membrane, I'm assuming it allows for movement and shifting without affecting the tile surface. I can go with my 3/4" subfloor, then Ditra, and tile??

Thanks for any assistance you guys can offer. I'm sure i will have many more questions as we get further along..we are still in the planning phase, but am trying to get a close estimate on materials for the project....

Happy New Year to ALL!!

Matt
chapperstx is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 12-31-2005, 10:52 AM   #2
Tool Guy - Kg
Moderator -- Wisconsin Kitchen & Bath Remodeler
 
Tool Guy - Kg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oak Creek, WI
Posts: 22,647
If you're gonna come right out and say that you're buttering us up, I don't know if we're still allowed to help.

No, your calculation is incorrect....If your span is indeed 6' with the 2x6's and you are using a species of wood other than Southern Yellow Pine or Doug Fir, you are at L/642. But I am concerned about your actual layout to see what is supported by the rock solid ground, and what is supported by the span of the beam to give you a proper answer. Can you post a sketch of your floor layout to confirm this?

And an uncoupling membrane like Ditra is always a good idea. Easy to install, and great performance. Make sure your 3/4" ply is tongue & grooved.
__________________
Tonto Goldstein... but my friends call me Bubba

Help an awesome summer camp!
Tool Guy - Kg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-31-2005, 11:24 AM   #3
chapperstx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4
ok...lets see if this works....

Hope you can make sense of this....
Attached Images
 

Last edited by jgleason; 01-01-2006 at 07:00 AM. Reason: replaced Word doc with a pic to make it easier on folks
chapperstx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-31-2005, 11:45 AM   #4
Tool Guy - Kg
Moderator -- Wisconsin Kitchen & Bath Remodeler
 
Tool Guy - Kg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oak Creek, WI
Posts: 22,647
Hi Matt,
In the areas where the 2x6's are directly above the vertical posts, the Deflecto can correctly calculate the deflection of the 2x6's. The fact that they are SYP improves deflection up to L/839. But I don't know how much load those 4x6 beams can carry as they span the 6'. Are the 4x6 beams also made from SYP?

Let's see if Engineer Bob or CX can chime in on this.
__________________
Tonto Goldstein... but my friends call me Bubba

Help an awesome summer camp!
Tool Guy - Kg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-31-2005, 01:00 PM   #5
chapperstx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4
thanks Bubba. The 4x6 beams are going to be ACQ Treated. Not sure if they are SYP that gets treated or what....the spec from the lumber yard calls it ACQ treated, and verified with my pier guy as what I should be using for my beams. My pier layout came from a structural engineer after he inspected the place...sounds like a little much to me(price ain't cheap either... ...but we're going with it...
chapperstx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-01-2006, 01:23 AM   #6
RLeVan
Registered User
 
RLeVan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Oak Hill, VA
Posts: 165
Now this is one of those problems that I just love to tinker with. First of all, is the engineer stating 10" Sonotubes with a 18-24"Wx8"H base beneath the Sonotube (code in most areas). If not, these piers "WILL" settle more over the next few years which is not a good thing. Especially if your laying a tile floor.

Now, pulling out my old crusty handy dandy architecture book, with a girder size of 4x6" SYP (not built-up but solid) and a girder spacing of 6', the typical girder span for load bearing walls is 5'-6", and 6-6" for non-load bearing walls. Now since this is an addition, I have would assume that a portion of these walls, especially the exterior walls would be load bearing since they need a roof.

Now, if you were to lay 2x6" joists on 16" C, the typical joist span would be 9' between girders. I would ask if it's possible for the engineer to calculate the projected deflection in your floor with that joist size and girder spacing. Keep in mind that he should be calculating the delfection parallel to the girder and it's subsequent effect on the deflection of the joists between the piers. If you call your county inspectors, they can tell you what is expected since footings can be a hangup in the building process.

Then again, I tend to over engineer everything but I've found asking questions never hurts. I'd prefer to look stupid over paying for repairs.
__________________
-Rick-

"When I say your name, you say 'here.' And we will assume 'here' is short for 'here I am...rock you like a hurricane"
RLeVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-01-2006, 07:56 AM   #7
Davestone
Florida Tile & Stone Man
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Naples Fl.
Posts: 22,690
That's almost what we call a stilt home here.Seems like the base of the piers is the problem, with settling.being more the issue than deflection,,and the whole thing would be better off with a concrete footer to rest on, less vertical support, so you can use the space better, and eliminate the settling issue....but i ain't no engineer, and you've done paid one, but we got one here,or maybe CX, if he sobers up.
__________________
Dave



http://Davestonestile.com
Davestone is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-01-2006, 08:04 AM   #8
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 92,808
Welcome, Matt.

I think your design is fine for ceramic tile.

The one thing I'd change is the treated wood, which I'd want to be KDAT (Kiln Dried After Treatment) rather than the wet treated stuff. It's a problem keeping that stuff from moving around even with the KD. The KDAT will probably be #1 grade on accounta that's all they ever bother doing hereabouts. Not much more expensive that regular PT stuff.

And while the 3/4" subflooring is adequate for ceramic tile, with new construction it's much better to design for another layer of plywood in the tile areas.

This all assumes that your guy can actually drill the designed pier holes in your yard. Them Injineers don't never dig no holes, so they think they just happen by magic, even inna rocks.

I'm not an Injineer, but I do play one on some jobsites.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-01-2006, 09:12 AM   #9
bbcamp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 30,274
What CX said...

..except the part about ingineers 'n stuff happenin' by magic.
bbcamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-01-2006, 09:28 AM   #10
chapperstx
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4
Thanks Guys!

yes, the piers will have a footing, 2' SQ, 12"H , 24" below grade..sorry...small detail left out...

already went over the "rock clause" with my pier guy...that might be a bit interesting..got a 50-50 shot out here...puttin in my wood fence i have a few posts that i couldnt get further than about 14" with my 3pt auger on my tractor 'cause of the rock...but it seems to cut through our property at certain areas only. we hopefully should be ok around the house,,but then again, i havent been drillin' 'round the house either...

i'll check out the KDAT beams...

So I'll end up with my 3/4" subfloor, what size ply on top? then ditra, and then tile?
chapperstx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:10 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC