Critique my Curbless Shower/Bathroom Layout

[grymes56]

I am planning a bathroom renovation with a curbless shower that will include a frameless door of some kind. Originally I planned for a pivot door with two side panels to be done by a glass company. Refer to my other thread for layout :http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...ad.php?t=81854

I have come across another solution I like better though.

http://www.bathauthority.com/shower-door-enigma.html



However, installation of this door requires the use of a threshold track and guide clip for the slider that are designed to be screwed down (shown below).



I do not like this for two reasons: most importantly I DO NOT want to drill into my Kerdi floor. I know that many people say it is OK to so long as you backfill the hole with Kerdifix or silicone - but I dont want to take the chance. Secondly - I think the big included threshold/U-channel is ugly and will ruin my curbless look.

I have devised a different installation method that I would like to run by you all.


Shown below is my new proposed method.



This method involves doing away with their included U-Channel/threshhold and instead using a standard CR Laurence U-Channel for the fixed panel ONLY. I will embed this section of U channel in the tile as I go.

The guide clip will also be installed as I tile - and adhered directly to the Kerdi with epoxy (will epoxy eat thru Kerdi?). The tile will be cut around it and it will be locked in with grout. I do not plan to use any screws. The forces on this clip will be minimal unless someone were to really ram the door hard.


By doing away with the threshold and embedding the fixed panel in the tile two problems are created - which I will solve simultaneously with the steep pitch seen for the 2 inch run between panels.

Problem 1. Height of sliding door bottom - By embedding the fixed panel approx 3/8" into the tile, the slider will be lowered respectively by 3/8". If the floor were flat or flat-ish between them then the slider would bottom out on the tile. Therefore I need to lower the tile in the area under the slider. I plan to pitch the 2inch wide strip of floor between panels at a steep pitch to gain the necessary gap under the sliding panel to accomodate a thin vinyl sweep. That brings up the next problem.

Problem 2: Water sealing: The included threshold is the only means they provide for preventing water seepage undr the door (they only include side sweeps for the door sides - not a bottom sweep). With my method of no metal threshold the water could seep out. This problem is solved by the steep pitched area essentially making a ~1/2" tile curb, AND by using a standard CR Laurence vinyl sweep attached to the glass bottom with very high bond tape.






So, there is my plan. Please give me your thoughts - specifically about the epoxying of the clip to the Kerdi and whether this will be strong enough, etc...thanks!

[Snets]

Kyle, you can drill into the tile 1/4" or so without drilling into the kerdi and use a good epoxy glue (locktite) that is recommended for metal to tile adhesion and just simply glue that bottom bracket to the tile.

I did this on my shower and have had no issues. That glass bracket is as solid as the ones screwed in up the wall.

The 1/4" deep hole provides a bite for the epoxy to act like a bolt into the tile.

There is no "official" answer to this issue anywhere.....I searched and asked. This method worked for me and I would do it again. No hole in the waterproofing.

[John Bridge]

Hi Kyle,

I think you're creating a cleaning nightmare.

Glass sliders are suspended from the top rail. Why not just use a small bracket at the bottom similar to those used on closet bypass doors? You could cement that onto the floor with epoxy glue. No rut in the floor. The doors will simply float a quarter inch or less above your floor. You can open the shower from either direction.


P.S. Snets, I've still got your plumbing pics and still intend to use them. I'm way behind on the project, though.

[cbonilla]

Have you seen prices on their products?

[grymes56]

thanks for the replies.

John - if you look at my layout (posted up top in my link to my other thread) you will see that I dont need a two way slider due to the toilet proximity. I only want one side to slide the other should be fixed - just as it would be if I used a custom pivot door. The Dreamline door linked above is designed to be used this way. I am not talking about altering the top mounting or the bottom guide clip - just changing the included bulky U-channel for a CR Laurence one - embedding it in the tile, and adding a vinyl sweep to the bottom of the slider to take care of water that would otherwise have been taken care of by the included 'bulky U-Channel threshold'.

My biggest concern is really how to attach that bottom guide clip without using screws. I know that no forces are placed on it by the door itself - but I am concerned with someone leaning on the door, etc.. and causing a sideways shear force that shears the clip off from the epoxy. I guess if I do it to the surface of the tile and it shears off I can re-epoxy it easier than if I were to do it straight to the Kerdi and tile around it. That could destroy the Kerdi with it and I'd be screwed.

[Brian in San Diego]

Kyle,

I merged your new thread with the original (I think) for this project. We would ask that you keep all project questions on one thread in keeping with our "one project, one thread" policy. Makes it easier for those trying to help and those following along to have all the information in one place. We can rename the thread if you like.

Brian

[Snets]

Kyle, I also forgot to suggest, if you are worried about the shear strength of using epoxy only, you could also epoxy a metal pin (or shortened bolt) through the clip hole and 1/4" into the hole in the tile. I thought about doing that.

As you can see, my bottom clip is 12" from the wall and holds a 180-degree swinging 30"X72", 3/8" thick door with just epoxy. Door has been opened a thousand times at least.

[grymes56]

thanks alot Snets. I actually was thinking today about your suggestion of drilling just the tile and thought to use a metal pin in the epoxy. Great minds think alike!

Well I am feeling better about this door system if I do decide to go with it instead of a custom pivot unit.

[Snets]

I have no doubt it would work and severely improve your predicament. Which is the whole reason for this forum.

[gitchi gummi]

This sliding track system requires no glass drilling or holes in the glass panels and no floor track:

http://www.mwe.de/content/view/406/5...lish.gif/pos,0

All showers have holes in the membrane. The drain, shower controls and shower head all penetrate the membrane. I think your insistence on avoiding a well sealed screw hole in the membrane is a little extreme. Water is never going to sit on and penetrate the floor in this area.

[Brian in San Diego]

Mark, where the penetration is is extremely important to the integrity of the waterproofing method. The shower valve and shower head are nowhere near as important as the bottom 10" and the curb. The drain doesn't count because properly installed the drain isn't a penetration at all. In the case of kerdi the membrane is bonded to the flange so it isn't a penetration of the membrane. In a traditional shower the liner is bonded to the drain via the clamping collar and sealant. Putting a screw or any other penetration through the floor, curb or 10" up the wall is of major concern. We have seen many examples of these types of penetrations of the membrane in the past and none of them are pretty.

[grymes56]

well I have decided to nix the slider and I am back to using a 3 panel custom pivot door. I called Wilson Glass (recommended alot on this site it seems) and they quoted me $1400 shipped to NY - a far cry less than the $2400 I was quoted locally(by 3 places). I will still be using embedded U-channel on the bottom and sides of both fixed panels. I'll use 3/8" for the 30" wide fixed panel and 24" door, and 1/2" for the 6" wide panel that is being hinged off of.

With embedding the U-Channel in the tile it should be completely hidden from view and look like the glass goes right into the tile itself.



Just to make sure - I have seen Wilson Glass referred on here a number of times - but does anyone have any experience with getting things shipped from them? Do they crate their stuff well, etc..? It has to make it 3000 miles from CA to NY...

[Brian in San Diego]

Kyle,

Chances are your glass will be manufactured locally. Wilson has deals with glass places all around the country and I think it's doubtful it'll be shipped from their facility in California.

Brian

[grymes56]

I'm curious where you guys like to place your mud screeds.

For example: say you have a 7' wide area and are using a 6' straight edge. Do you place the mud screeds 6" in from each wall - and screed the middle first before going back a bit and using that middle area to screed off the two 6" swaths on the edges? Or - do you place them 12" in from each wall so that each screed is no more than 6' from a wall - and you can essentially screed in two steps instead of three?

I personally think the second option seems to make more sense - but at what point do you consider a screed too far from the wall?

[tilelayer]

Find the high spot against a wall and start there form your screed (I call them runners). Then make it as long as you can go from wall to wall as long as that wall is. Then make a runner perpendicular to the one of the end of it, your creating an L. Then take your L and make a runner perpendicular to the last one so your next runners parallel with the 1st one you should have a U now. The make a return runner that brings you back the 1st runner you made (figuring the room is a square.) This gives you an oppertunity to check and you should be level with the original runner. Then just fill it in with whatever desired straight edge fills the gap. I have 2,3,4,5,6,8 ft edges so I can mud however I want. My next edges to get are a 7 ft and 10 ft.