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Unread 08-09-2002, 04:40 PM   #1
darcy@ waterfallceramics
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I am soon to attempt an ambitious tile project for my newly constructed bathroom(which I built)..I have decided to tile floor to celing as the water tended to go all over the room anyway...my questions have mainly to do with the order of how to progress....
1).I am putting cement board down as underlayment for the floor over two layers of 3/4 plywood...after priming and using self leveling compound to even it all out....unable to detect any deflection so this should work.?..
2). would normally leave the floor tile until the walls are done BUT I have a 3 inch baseboard molding I want to use and the wall tile layout is dependant upon the top edge of the molding....should I do the floor first or pray that my measurements are accurate?Any hints ? If i am off by 1/4 inch or so,I'll be doing alot of cutting...
3). having custom mirrors fabricated for this installation...is it better to have them installed before i do the tile up the walls or do the tile first then have them made and installed? Lead time is three weeks from day of measurement which will delay completeion(refinance is in progress)The rope edge tiles will be directly next to the mirror....
4)I am using marble for the vanity top,,,currently designed for the mirrors to sit 1/4"-1/2" above(no backsplash) in a j channel...other than the possibility for water seepeage and eventual silvering lose,,,anyone see any problems with this?...(top has a slight pitch to facilitate drainage away from the wall)
5).tile be adhered to drywall. ..what kind of adhesive to use? I have one small area not subject to water penetration where we ( foolishly?) put up drywall instead of concrete backer board...
boy,nothing like a novel! But that just about covers everything....
me and my bathroom will be ever so grateful for any advise...Thanks...Darcy

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Unread 08-09-2002, 04:56 PM   #2
John Bridge
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Welcome aboard, Darcy.

In the custom homes I work on around here the floors are put in first. They are covered and padded, and everybody from that point on has to protect them. That's the way to do it.

In houses like my own, I'd probably do the walls first.

I don't like the mirrors going into the channel way down on the countertop. You KNOW they're going to collect water and get ugly around the edges.

And that brings me to the before or after of the mirror install. I would do the tile work first simply because it's nearly impossible to keep water from getting behind the mirror edges when grouting, especially when grouting rope edges.

Now I'll shut up and hope someone else comes along.

P.S. We can use a regular plumber around here. All we have now are a bunch of tile setters who do remodeling and therefore plumbing.
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Unread 08-09-2002, 05:18 PM   #3
darcy@ waterfallceramics
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Talking

thanks John....that pretty much confirms my instincts about the whole project....floors first,why take a chance...that mirror on the counter prob has me a bit perplexed...from a design aesthic viewpoint..any sort of backsplash will mess up the design...any sort of suggestions? And the tip about doing the mirrors after grouting was something I had not thought about...which is why I came to you guys...
Now as for being a regular plumber...lol..I have not done much of it..most of what I have been doing is hooking up exotic gases and deadly chemicals and process piping for the computer research labs around here...either that or digging ditches because I pissed off my supervisor!!! Not really.. Just Kidding...Thanks for the helpful info...keep it coming....Ps...I liked the article on tile saws as I am about to buy one...and didnt have a clue before...Dr.c.
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Unread 08-09-2002, 06:13 PM   #4
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Lightbulb Working With Mirrors

By cooincidence, I had just read this FREE article from the
August 2002 on-line issue of the Journal of Light Construction, by Kathy McLellan.

She is quite specific in her recommendation of using a 3/4 inch chrome-finish aluminum J-channel at the base of any mirror that rests on a backsplash. It will conceal (not prevent) the "Black Edge" that can appear at the bottom edge of a bathroom mirror.

I hope that you will find it helpful.

http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlc.../View/0208kitc

This will show you the first 100 words of this free article. You can then click on "View PDF" or "View HTML" to see the whole article in either format.


If the above link fails, click on
http://www.jlconline.com

click on "Browse Articles" click on "Kitchen & Bath" click on "Design: Bath"

and you should always be able to find it there...

[Edited by on 08-09-2002 at 08:26 PM]
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Unread 08-09-2002, 09:16 PM   #5
darcy@ waterfallceramics
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Wow Sparky...thanks a million!!! The article was EXACTLY what I needed for proper info on the mirrors....and addressed issues I had forgotten to include in my little novella of questions....I am sooo glad I decided to post....I put that sight into my favorites list and saved it for future reference....thanks again...keep the answers coming guys,,,this is getting good...Darcy...
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Unread 08-09-2002, 10:20 PM   #6
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Hi Darcy;

Building up off the floor only works when the floor is perfectly level, (as in when John floats a mud floor) Chances are your floor is not perfect, so you'll have to cut the bottom row of wall tiles anyway. Why not do some calculations and install the walls first, except for the bottom row and the base molding. Then install the floor tile followed by the molding and the last row of tile above it. Anyway, it looks better if the wall tile is set on the floor. (That's why many of us say install floor first). Be sure to have all the backer installed before any tile is set.

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Unread 08-09-2002, 10:52 PM   #7
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Jaz thanks for the input...I have done numerous calculations and right now...by some miracle...with the baseboard and floor and trim,I should have nothing but full tiles up the wall....The walls would look good without the baseboard but the custom vanitys toekick would look pretty odd....going for the design continuation...its a small bathroom but lots of angles and it needs something to tie it all together....As for the floor...I replaced the subfloor,,firred out the joists here and there and will use self leveling compound in the few low spots...it's pretty darn level,,,,,though I am certain not as level as John could make it......being a compulsive craftsmen helps here...or ...wait a minute ..are yousaying to lay the wall tile from the floor up and install the molding over that? I have seen that done......and all the backer board is in,,,except the last layer on the floor which is on tomorrows agenda...keep the info coming in guys...it's all good...Dr.C ps...all taped and properly waterproofed behind too..(I had some help from an currently AWOL concrete/tile pro on that one)

[Edited by darcy@ waterfallceramics on 08-10-2002 at 01:04 AM]
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Unread 08-09-2002, 11:23 PM   #8
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No, what I meant was, install the molding on the wall resting on the floor as you planned, but you might have to custom cut the row of tiles above the molding unless the floor and wall tiles are in perfect parallel. If the floor is level you can stack off the floor, if the floor is not level..the wall tiles still must be installed level, therefore the bottom row needs to cut accordingly.

In other words; you can stack the wall tiles up from the level floor tiles. If the floor is more than an 1/8" out of level, you must mark a level line on the wall where the second row starts and proceed up. You cut the row below to fit in the space to the floor, or in your case, the molding which is resting on the unlevel floor.

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Unread 08-09-2002, 11:32 PM   #9
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thanks for the clarification.....if I do the floor first,which I am leaning toward...couldn't i correct any out of level by placing the moulding level...regardless of how level the floor is? At 1/8"or so it wouldn't be perceiveable at the bottom on the wall....and shouldn't that seam between the floor and the moulding,along the bottom be some kind of caulking? Seems the more answers I get the more questions i have....thats about par for us diysers! thanks again...
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Unread 08-10-2002, 07:53 AM   #10
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Darcy, yes and yes to your last two questions... assuming the floor is not too out of level. The SLC should do the trick. As for adhesives on drywall, I like Mastic (laticrete in particular), but Mastic is kind of a swear word around here. (Hereafter referred to as M----!) As long as it's not going to get wet, I've found it damn near impossible to get tiles off once they're affixed to drywall. Thinset on CBU, as you know. I would go ahead, if it's not too late, and put 1/2" CBU anywhere you think might get water... will be better over the long haul.

Good luck!
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Unread 08-10-2002, 02:36 PM   #11
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Brian and All.....just what i had hoped for,,,lots of good info and a few dissenting opinions....I think I might change one section of the drywall portion to CB,even though its already taped and ready to tile....
I had another question ( they never end!)...the corner vanity has a counter that extends about 2.5 feet out from the body of the cabinet- 10 1/4" wide...(both sides)I put very stout angle brackets(l's-8") onto the studs for support and put in blocking to hold additional brackets so there are three on each side.I slotted the CB to accomodate the brackets and now the voids have to be filled with something. I thought about cb itself but it would sit proud of the surface....considered shaving down the back side of some cb to make it flush and using that....thinset by itself would probably eventually crack out due to the minor flexation over time...so what should I fill the voids with?....
ps the counter top will be made from 23/32 ac exterior grade ply with a 5/8 concrete board top layer and covered with marble...does this sound good? should I coat the ply with anything or any other handy hints? ( i have white thinset for the marble and a supply of very expensive sealer,)
hey you know,,plumbing is alot easier than this! Probably because I dont have to think about all the little tricks and hints...then again ,you guys dont have to play with hydroflouric acid either! I'm about ready to dive in and tile this puppy....Thanks a bunch...
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Unread 08-10-2002, 03:05 PM   #12
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Darcy,

You can probably just fill the slots with thin set if the tiles are large enough to carry over the gaps.
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Unread 08-10-2002, 03:57 PM   #13
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good,that will be easy enough...yes they are big enough to span..thanks
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