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Unread 01-06-2019, 06:29 PM   #1
nesc39
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Shower Waterproofing Needed?

Do you guys flood houses on a regular basis? Not trying to be rude but I don’t understand the level of thought going into waterproofing this and other showers. where is the water going to leak? Water is never gonna go through a tile so that leaves the grout. As long as your grout is solid and your corners are siliconed, you not gonna leak water under any circumstances other than being completely ignorant.
I know the countless people are gonna come in here and call me an idiot and that’s fine. In the meantime, Take a couple sheets of mosaic and build yourself a 1x1x1’ basin. Finish it just like you would a shower and then fill it with water. Let me know in a few weeks if the backside of the grout is damp. Keep in mind that’s when it’s filled with water 24/7, your shower is gonna have water in it for 15 min a day.
On top of your knee wall and curb use a slab of granite. Silicone it and it’s never gonna leak. Silicone all your wall corners, around the drain and your floor to wall connections.
Were there preslopes when everyone used copper pans for 100 years? Nope. I’ve never built a preslope in my life nor have I saw one anywhere except this site. I’ve never had a leak in any shower I’ve built.
I’m not saying that waterproofing is a waste of time so do not get me wrong. It’s just that a lot of people get out of control and overthink the process. Water splashing on a wall and flooding the house? Never happening with the way I described. Do cement pools leak?
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Unread 01-06-2019, 06:54 PM   #2
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Repid, I've replaced many showers built the way you describe. They were in various stages of failure from minor to moldy petri dish and rot. To my way of thinking a failure is, or is not. There is no partial failure. Only the speed with which it deteriorates.

Over thinking? Yep I've seen it here more than once. Folks want to employ a belt and suspenders approach and inadvertently build in a problem.

Overbuilt? What's the downside to having something last and last? ACE methods just rub me wrong.

Relying on caulk to make your shower waterproof is a fools errand.

For sure technology has advanced waterproofing methods, but some of the biggest points of failure historically are linked to workmanship, not to method employed. We used to build houses that leaked air like sieves. Would you now consider that adequate with what we know now? Building code used to allow tile on green board in showers. Would you go back to that and call it good?


Sorry, I'm not on board with your way of thinking and, I believe, with good reason.

Concerning cement pools. Well built ones don't leak. Poorly made do.
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Unread 01-06-2019, 07:04 PM   #3
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Hi Repid, I'm not trying to be rude either but actually, gunite pools are known to seep water.

I don't need to make a sample board and soak it to determine if a moisture barrier is needed. I see enough of them. Here's a picture of a shower we tore out a few months ago. It had no moisture barrier, only CBU nailed to green board. All the grout and tiles on the walls were solid. The door on the far left wouldn't close all the way because of the saturated studs that ended up being replaced.

Oh, and just because no one has called you to report a failure doesn't mean you don't have any. It just means they didn't call you.
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Unread 01-06-2019, 08:09 PM   #4
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I bet that smelled delicious!!!
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Unread 01-07-2019, 01:23 PM   #5
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Brandon I used those exact pebbles (in black) in my own shower and regret it because the amount of cleaning. I used mapei sanded grout. The large rough surface area holds a lot of bacteria and makes the grout smell if it’s not cleaned all the time.

Davy I know there are countless failures of leaking showers but more often than not it’s the original installers not paying attention. I’ve replaced just as many with no issues at all. That shows water wicked right out of the pan since the lower you go the more mold there is. Also it stops right and the 4’ level of Sheetrock perfectly.

Is my description a waterproof shower? No it’s water resistant to the point of the installers knowledge of water intrusion. Is it the perfect shower? No but 50 years ago they thought it was. Is schluter the perfect shower? For now it is, until it’s own set of failures occur. I’ve used hydroban on countless occasions, how do I know it’s gonna last any longer that no barrier at all? I don’t, no one does.....We’re at the manufacturers discretion. Last week I was sawing plasma out of mosiac grout lines because laticrete realized their perfect grout actually sucked. They fully admit it and paid for the whole job.


Carbidetooth i agree with alot of what you said. Failure is more often linked to workmanship and not the method. I also agree that my method isn’t the best, I also agree that materials and methods ARE constantly improving, I use them myself.
What is the difference between relying on silicone for a shower when they glaze skyscrapers with it? I’m guessing you rely on kerdi, a piece of fabric and felt that peels off with a slight pull. Or hydroban rolled onto deck mud who’s top 1/8”’of an inch will easily crumble. Is tile stuck to fabric as strong as tile
Stuck to cement? I definitely don’t think so. Do we need to stack crushed stone around weep holes when the whole point of deck mud is to allow water to pass through it?
Does the silicone last forever? No but that’s part of being a responsible homeowner, you need to keep an eye on those connections just like your water heater, paint, roof etc. We can build the whole place cast out of gold and it will last 50,000 years but is that necessary?
My only point was that we need to be practical and things like taking the time to rip 1/8” off a a 2x4 for a sloped sill on the knee wall is ridiculous. Throw a coulle dabs on one side of your granite and slope it when you install. Builds a nice waterproof solid pan, Keep your Durock 1/2” above the deck mud and silicone all your corners right
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Unread 01-07-2019, 06:58 PM   #6
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Years ago I replaced a shower where the water was hitting the pony wall and was being pushed down the other side rotting out the tub deck. That's when I decided to start ripping down my top 2x4 on an angle or slide some wood wedges under the outside edge to give it slope. You may not have ever seen a shower like that but I have.

As far as pebbles over the weepholes, there's people that are way smarter than you and I saying it's a good idea. I'll take their word for it. Check out the TCNA handbook.
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Unread 01-07-2019, 09:03 PM   #7
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Repid, I've moved this discussion to the Professionals' Hangout where we generally discuss technical issues, methods and materials, especially when the opinions are contrary to tile industry standards . That also removes it from the other visitor's project thread where it was becoming a distraction. We also like to keep advice that is contrary to tile industry standards, building code, and product manufacturer's instructions here rather than in the Advice forum.

Feel free to continue the discussion and I'm sure there will be others who'll want to join in.

If you're in the tile trades, please add some information to your User Profile so folks out here can see that.
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Unread 01-07-2019, 09:06 PM   #8
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Repid ,

Your points are taken, why build a tank with 3" armor when 2" armor stops most missiles.

Here's the reason, at the end of the day, factoring in all possible opinions, arguments, experience... a tank cost XY and making sure it stands up to actions we can forsee and not forsee, 3" of armor makes sure its money well spent, and that the one condition we thought won't happen, WHEN it does happen doesn't compromise all that time and energy.
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Unread 01-08-2019, 11:06 AM   #9
tilemanct
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Repid
Im considered an old man in this biz. From all the years building custom tiled showers I can honestly say you can never have enough waterproofing.
Most of shower failures I have ripped out are due to poor waterproofing and vapor management.
I just looked at a custom tiled shower in a $2million dollar house that if the installer spent the extra time on waterproofing, it wouldn't have to be ripped out. Lots of mold and water damage.
Reconsider your views on waterproofing and do some thread searches on the topic here in the forum. It will be eye opening!!!
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Unread 01-08-2019, 12:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave (tilemanct)
Reconsider your views on waterproofing and do some thread searches on the topic here in the forum. It will be eye opening!!!
I'll echo that recommendation, Repid. While it would be difficult to sort them out, there are probably hundreds of threads on these forums from visitors whose showers have failed because of improper waterproofing, some with good photos of the results.

And keep in mind that leaks are not the only kind of tile shower failure.
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Unread 01-09-2019, 09:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repid
I know the countless people are gonna come in here and call me an idiot and that’s fine.
We are a polite group, and we don't allow name calling, and with that I rest my case.
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Unread 01-09-2019, 03:10 PM   #12
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yes cement pools leak if not waterproofed.
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Unread 01-10-2019, 09:59 AM   #13
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Unread 01-10-2019, 05:59 PM   #14
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This is where the water goes when not properly waterproofed. I can take pictures of the ceiling below tomorrow if you want.
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Unread 01-10-2019, 06:30 PM   #15
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Obviously they didn't keep up on the caulk maintenance!
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