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Unread 12-21-2018, 08:20 AM   #1
dja4260
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Kitchen sub floor advice

Hello!

I have a kitchen that is being refreshed. The entire kitchen is above a finished basement. The kitchen is supported by 2x10's, 16 inch on center. The spans are 12 foot.

My 3/4 inch plywood sub floor is in excellent shape.

When I walk around the kitchen, there is slight movement. I only detected it as my wife put a piece of china with a china lid that rattles when I walk by.

Kitchen floor is roughly 135 sq ft. The ceramic tile that is to be layed down is 12x24 pieces.


I have a few thoughts and would like some feedback.

Thought #1

Add 1/4 inch plywood, glued and screwed, add 1/4 Durrock concrete board

Thought #2

Ugh....Dropping sheet rock in basement and sistering each 2x10. Adding 1/2 inch Durrock concrete board.

Thoughts?
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Unread 12-21-2018, 09:13 AM   #2
Raymond S
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If your joists are in good condition they should be fine for your floor. The movement is probably “ between the joists deflection”. A second layer of plywood (1/2” BC or better) should take care of that, then the underpayment of your choice.
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Unread 12-22-2018, 04:19 PM   #3
dja4260
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Thank you for the feedback. Anyone else?
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Unread 12-22-2018, 08:05 PM   #4
jadnashua
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Plywood will provide some stiffness, cbu doesn't. It's almost impossible to find 1/4" ply suitable for tiling. 3/8" stuff is hard to find that actually will lay flat, so it really is best to go with at least 1/2" nominal. But, ply helps the in-between stiffness, not the along the joist strength. The industry standards are based on not gluing sheets together. Doing it properly can increase the overall strength, but it's easy to mess it up and end up with a worse situation. If you choose to do it, you need a wood glue spread evenly, then the sheet installed and screwed down before the glue starts to set. Then, it's easy to strip the bottom layer to get a good clamping effect with the glue in there. Best to forget it.

You can decrease the overall buildup if you use a membrane to tile to verses cbu. It also helps to minimize the dead load, is faster to install, easier to carry, and likely save you some time.

From an industry standpoint, your existing subfloor meets the standards. Many of the pros much prefer to include a second layer of ply as it does stiffen things up. One thing that may have been omitted when installing your subfloor is the construction adhesive on the joists. That is called for in the industry specs and makes a huge increase in the stiffness of the overall floor.
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Unread 12-22-2018, 08:22 PM   #5
cx
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Welcome, Dan.

Good quality 2x10s on 16" centers and spanning only 12 feet shouldn't feel bouncy at all and you shouldn't be rattling dishes with only footsteps.

You do understand that the span information you need is the unsupported span of the joists and not the width of the room being tiled, yes?
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Unread 12-22-2018, 11:29 PM   #6
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Is there some part of the joists that are accessible? Just wondering if there's a chance of damage or rot, since they shouldn't be bouncing like you describe.
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Unread 12-23-2018, 09:24 AM   #7
dja4260
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No, I can stick my head up inbetween the joist. Everything is in excellent shape.

I added wood screws inbetween the nails on the sub floor. I'm about to dry fit the 1/4 ultra board.

Thank you all for your advice and experiences.

I'll post pictures when I'm done. Go easy on me!
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Unread 12-23-2018, 09:49 AM   #8
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Do you have a link to that ultra board?
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Unread 12-23-2018, 11:08 AM   #9
dja4260
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https://m.lowes.com/pd/PermaBase-0-2...ard/1000541499

PermaBase 1/4 inch cement board.
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Unread 12-23-2018, 12:14 PM   #10
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Ok, thanks. Just never seen it with "Ultra" on it.
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