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Old 04-28-2018, 03:33 PM   #31
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For filling under Kerdi drains I generally put some of my deck mud in a gallon can, toss in a handful of dry thinset mortar if I have some open, add some water to make the mix a bit wetter than deck mud and pack it under the drain using the edge of a wood float.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:09 AM   #32
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Side note:

Installing the drain adapter - after applying kerdi - fix, I noticed my clamping ring bolts were TOO large to fit into the adapter gasket! After some anxiety, grabbed a rat tail file to widen them and installed. Should have dry fit that first!


Edit - finally found a post describing how to establish the slope in a rectangular shower - use the furthest distance, use 1/4" slope, and use that level all around (will be steeper pitch on the narrow sides of shower
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Old 05-26-2018, 10:24 PM   #33
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deck mud -

used sand topping mixed with play sand - 130# topping with 100# of sand (a little leaner than the 'how to'

I mixed it to the consistency mentioned in the article - squeeze a ball, it sticks, no sand on my hand, no water dropping out.

I used versabond thinset on the base of the shower, mixed smooth. installed the adapter drain per schluter instructions, and used some deck mud mixed with the versabond underneath the flange (this was done prior to the rest of the pan)


It was a bit more technically challenging than expected. I do think I got a good pitch to the corners (about 32", sloped 3/4"), and tamped down with my level along the edges to give me a surface to try to set the rest of the pan at.

I used a wood float to tamp down, as well as to screed and slope the surface.

Because the shower is a little 'deep', I did the back half, then completed the front half, and tried to smooth them together.



The finished surface, didnt seem as smooth (more like sandpaper) - i tried tamping down more, as well as misting a little afterwards with a spray bottle.

There are some obvious small pitted areas, although the slope looks pretty decent that it isnt going to pool.

Question - with the thinset application on top of this, then adhering the kerdi - does that smooth out the surface and the pitted bumps? or do you let it dry out, and manually abrade it a little?

Im wondering if I have to tear it up and give it a second go - maybe my mix was to lean and/or dry? Next time use a 2x4 length to help shape it a little better?


edit - after a day of drying, there are some loose crumbles, but the surface is pretty rock hard. I still didnt do that great of a job as far as nice even slope across the whole thing, although it is set where it should all drain and not pool. Im thinking once I thinset and kerdi the surface, as well as more thinset and tile, that the thinset will even out any imperfections, as long as I am careful setting the tile correctly?
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Old 06-03-2018, 09:36 PM   #34
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Dan, you really wanted to keep the fleece on that drain much cleaner than that. You may be able to wash some of that mud off there now if it's not already too late. That's very important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan
edit - after a day of drying, there are some loose crumbles, but the surface is pretty rock hard. I still didnt do that great of a job as far as nice even slope across the whole thing, although it is set where it should all drain and not pool. Im thinking once I thinset and kerdi the surface, as well as more thinset and tile, that the thinset will even out any imperfections, as long as I am careful setting the tile correctly?
I can never tell much by looking at photos of mud shower floors, but part of yours looks a little rough. Applying Kerdi will not help your high spots at all. The application will fill the minor voids in a mud bed, but you really want the mud flat before applying the membrane. And overall you want your slope from the sides to the drain to be very flat and the proper pitch.

If you don't think you've got what you need, call it practice, take it out and do another. Deck mud's dirt cheap; labor's free. If you do that, try to get your mix closer to 5:1 rather than that 6:1 you used this time.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 06-03-2018, 10:49 PM   #35
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The fleece was mostly covered with crumbles. Just spent some time cleaning it up and it looks a little discolored, but still can feel the soft fleece-y backing to it.

I used some versabond to fill in a few shallow divots, and although the pitch isnt consistent in a few areas, there dont seem to be any high spots, nor low spots that would allow water to pool.

Granted redo-ing it would go smoother the second time, however I will probably still find some inconsistencies in some areas.... its challenging to have enough straight edges of varying lengths to smooth a wide rectangle all toward one spot.


Moving on, a few other questions before the kerdi goes up:

1) a 12x12 niche. Im limited where I can place it due to electrical in the walls. I have a suitable space with some up and down wiggle room. I think a previous thread mentioned trying to place it so it coincides with the top of a tile.

Im a little worried trying to measurement (tiles plus spacers) - if off 1/4 inch, would end up creating an obvious little gap. Im thinking instead just place the niche where I want and cut tiles when i get to that row to compensate. Is doing it that way foolish?

2) membrane on floor versus walls first. Most people seem to do walls?

3) membrane placement on walls vertical versus horizontal - a schluter video I believe recommended horizontal placement may be easier for beginners.

4) the shower head is about 14" from the ceiling. Is there a standard to tile above the head? I thought avoiding going all the way to the ceiling may help hide any variance in the level line of the tile/ceiling if its a little off. I thought maybe 8" above the head would be enough.

-edit - other posts indicate only to top of shower head is needed... ill likely run a little over the head, leave some drywall gap that will obscure if the ceiling isnt quite level

5) I created a curb out of bricks and mortar which will be tiled. I run the membrane up and over the curb wherever there will be tile? I figure that will take 4 outside corners to complete? 2 on the shower side of the curb, and 2 on the bathroom side of the curb? Trying to wrap my head around how I am supposed to wrap the curb in tile.
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Old 06-12-2018, 08:37 AM   #36
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Bump and edit (not sure why it wont let me edit the last post)

1) i just put the niche where I wanted... i guess ill figure out the tile cuts when I get up to that row

2) seems from posts, walls first are standard..... same with the tile process

3) havent really seen anyone talk about horizontal... i already measured out and cut my fabric for vertical placement. cutting edges and corners was a fun little math project.

4) I ended up going about 8" above the showerhead with the fabric and will with the tile as well..... leaving a gap at top of the drywall/diamondback (hopefully paint can hide the odd diamondback raised knobs

5) reason for the bump. with a brick curb that has been mortared together, do i just thinset and apply kerdi over the curb to the floor on the outside, and then use outside corners at the 4 corners of the curb to get appropriate overlap?
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Old 06-12-2018, 08:48 AM   #37
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Dan, you're limited in the time after your post in which you can still make edits. I don't recall exactly the time, but I think it's a couple days.

2. You can tile in any order you prefer. I prefer to do the floor last to prevent damage while working on ceilings and walls. In fact, when building a direct bonded waterproofing membrane shower, I usually don't even set the drain until the ceiling and walls are set except for the bottom row and are frequently grouted as well. Entirely up to you.

3. Membrane cares not a whit in which direction you install it. I do mine vertically as a rule.

5. You can do that.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 06-14-2018, 05:52 PM   #38
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One follow up question about my curb and covering with kerdi-


I used brick mortar to connect the bricks to the slab and each other.... however if I am covering with kerdi, Wont I also want to put the pitch on the top of the bricks? 1/8" per foot?

I figure if I kerdi the flat top curb, and use thinset and slope the tiles to the inside of the shower, water wont necessarily get 'off the curb', and I would need the pitch under the membrane layer?

As the bricks are already set, should I whip up some more brick mortar to slope, or can I do a thin skim of thinset to establish the gentle pitch?
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:30 PM   #39
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Yes, you must slope the waterproofing membrane to drain on top of any horizontal surface in your wet area.

While that is not the intended use of thinset mortar, you may be able to provide the slope with it or with some of your brick mortar. Let it cure before applying your waterproofing membrane.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:51 AM   #40
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When installing the kerdi membrane to the floor, do some people use kerdi-fix at the junction between the fleece and the drain flance/fleecy material, or just thinset?


I thought I read a few people mentioning kerdi-fix is a better idea there in other tnreads, but cant find any posts commenting on this when I use a search function.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:55 AM   #41
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I usually just use thinset. Kerdifix is more of an adhesive than a sealant.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:24 AM   #42
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I've read a few posts from some pros that do it just for added insurance.

To each his own.
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Old 07-04-2018, 10:20 PM   #43
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flood test question:

I purchased a 2" oatley tester.... that has an expansion wingnut on it.


However, when the plumber set the height of the drain, they placed an adapter of sorts with a protective wafer (wafer was cut out). This makes it just a but too wide to get that plug down in there.

Didnt have a balloon, tried a water filled 'other' latex type inflatable object... although doesnt seem to have a lot of pressure to seal it.

really seems like the 2" should fit in there, but I dont want to force it.....not sure if a 1.5" is available at the store, but i know a 3" is.... would a 3" fit in the upper portion of the adapter drain to seal it off?

frustrating that i made a run before work to the store for it to realize it wont fit :\

pictures trying to show the residual area where the wafer was removed..... can i get a rat tail file in there to smooth out that lip? Im thinking thats the only thing preventing the 2" plug from properly seating in three to seal it?


file worked... there was a large burr. flood testing in process
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:12 PM   #44
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follow up -

flood testing - had to trim out a little to get the plug to fit. tested fine.

noted the water tends to cling a little to the fabric? I dont have any puddles or pools in the pan, but I can still 'swipe' water down the drain a little bit after it drains.

so the follow up question - reading up on tile posts - plan is to do second row on walls, then floor, then lower row on walls. couple of fine points I couldnt seem to gather:

1) using a ledger board on kerdi - do you use tile/blocks to hold up the ledger board, versus using screws to hang the board and placing kerdi fix in the holes to re-seal them? Ive seen the latter but am hesitant to be punching holes in the kerdi

2) If I plan on starting the second row, where exactly do I start? just one tile height, or is there a more precise measurement (ie - do you have to account for the grout lines, plus the thickness of the floor tile, then add those to the start of the second row?)

3) left to right spacing - im a little confused as to whether you want to tile out from a center line, or just space it so that you dont have small slivers on either side when you finish.

4) end and floor tiles, are you creating a 45deg miter on the ends and leaving spacing for grout lines, versus going to the ends and overlapping at changes of plane.... obviously leaving the spacing between them for silicone/grout.

5) Ive read several threads mentioning backs of tiles having 'release powder' of sorts that leads to tile failure. Im not sure if mine have this, however is there a cleaning method for the backs of tiles that may help with this, versus just burning in thinset, and pulling back as I go to assure proper coverage and sticking to the backs of tile when I set them?
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