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Unread 09-03-2010, 08:38 PM   #1
Dfly
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Heated floors for hardwood...

Before you read this, know that everyone including myself and the plank installer is telling the contractor he is crazy!!!

I am on a crazy(dont get me started) job with clients that want heated wood ( 9 inch reclaimed pine)plank floors. The electrician already has laid Warm Zone heating cables and there are 1"X3" nailing strips screwed and glued down alongside the cables. These are the nailers for his planks. The contractor is asking me to fill the gaps with mortar!

After i get a waiver removing me from any responsibility, i plan on using a Tec leveller, acrylic modified with fibre reinforcement.(the name escapes me on a friday night).. i figure i will use a bag every 15 feet... for 260 sq. feet...

Any thoughts or suggestions other than do not do it?
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Unread 09-03-2010, 08:55 PM   #2
duneslider
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Not sure I see your problem? You are being asked to float the floor not install the wire or the floor. If tecs product is speced for heated floors you are fine. They need to have something to absorb the heat and mortar is good for that. Since you aren't the wood guy you should be fine. I probably would do a full spread glue on that job cause that wide plank is gonna move!
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Unread 09-03-2010, 09:20 PM   #3
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9 inch planks..wouldn't that be top nailed?

My biggest fear would be the cement debonding and causing cracking noises.

Once the heat gets the wood dry it will shrink. Perhaps have the heat turned on for a week ahead of time would help.

Prime the floor would help also.

Is it over a slab or a wood substrate.

unless you do this just right I can see rice crispy noises in the future.
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Unread 09-06-2010, 05:38 PM   #4
daverogers72
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The heated floor I always use is designed to go under hardwood its made by thermosoft its called thermofloor its on a felt pad and requires no self leveler
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Unread 09-06-2010, 05:46 PM   #5
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it can under a nailed down product?
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Unread 09-06-2010, 06:13 PM   #6
daverogers72
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yes its designed for under hardwood you nail it between the coils the coils are actually attached to a felt pad Ive never used it I've used the one they have for under tile floors I guess from what I understand its a new technology it's like a fiberoptic
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Unread 09-06-2010, 07:21 PM   #7
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still doesnt sound right to me
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Unread 09-06-2010, 07:54 PM   #8
custombuilt
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There was an article on here last year about that... someone out of korea is making it, it was designed to go under hardwood.

I think Jerry at signature tile was going to go to a seminar about the stuff? I remember it was super thin.
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Unread 09-09-2010, 07:30 AM   #9
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I don't think thermofloor has a product that fits this (the nail penetrable) application, I could be wrong but I didn't see it on their site, at least amongst the residential products on the site. I only see product for floating-engineered floors. Could they have other new applications coming out? or I'm not looking in the right place?

Because of a differnt floor heat event I was asking my inspector some questions if I could follow another procedure, after he got done cursing he explained there are some options for what we were talking about in appropriate product choice.

But he also off hand referred to skin effect mats, apparantly some kind of magnetic envelope that appantly can be penetrated by a nail.

Apparantly they are rare (which I'd assume means cost prohibitive for typical residential, I got the impression it's one of those unique big project architect/engineer commercial applications) and I don't pretend to know anything about it as it wasn't for my application, it was an off-hand remark and I didn't ask any questions about it, he just mentioned it as an example of knowing to use the right product in different applications.

Last edited by interlodge; 09-09-2010 at 07:58 AM.
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Unread 09-09-2010, 07:51 AM   #10
Jhereg
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Several floor heating products I've used I know are safe for under ENGINEERED hardwood. Every single one of them are very specific that they are not for use under real wood floors. The wood is not stable under the direct heat, will dry out, warp and crack. I would strongly advise them to contact the heating wire manufacturer before thinking about this as it's going to be throwing a lot of money away.
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Unread 09-09-2010, 08:05 AM   #11
interlodge
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Chad, I think I didn't explain right, yes, not like their mat ( edit Thermosoft's Thermofloor application) where you can see the wires and nail specifically in between.
This apparantly allows you to simply nail through it randomly. I think right now they're mainly used in commercial applications for walls and ceiling but I guess if the architect/engineer/company wanted to could be for a floor. (edit like installed underneath a plywood subfloor and later just nail away on a flat floor)

And I'd agree on the suitabilty for the hardwood also.... I was really more commenting on the reference and availability to a fiber optic product (??) that allows nails to penetarte. Just trying to understand what is out there

edit (if anyone knows they or anyone else has a residential, cost competitive product for that specific situation for large hardwood areas, please let me know. I don't find the requirement to use umderlayment/padding in every inch of non heated areas a suitable installation, Too much work and in the end can't imagine a quality hardwood feel translates through it well??)
Just to clarify from what I understood, installed over studs/joists, then drywall applied and screwed right in without regard to the film.

Last edited by interlodge; 09-09-2010 at 09:11 AM.
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Unread 09-09-2010, 09:46 AM   #12
interlodge
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I got the trade assocciation from the inspector. It is companies that don't have recognizable names for residential applications (I imagine they are really the actual manufactures as opposed to marketers) From what I learned there are no resistance wires to worry about in the installation. Looks like a thin film. Don't know how it works, but supposidly my heated car mirrors have it applied. Sounds like it's being more introduced in European residential, I don't know why that would be verus here as supposidly it can be easily listed.
The technology is used in everything from car seats to antifog mirrors to heated pipelines and ship decks. It is used on roofs and says can be installed under almost all floors.
The websites don't explain much as it's not geared to retail.
If I find anything else that would be realistically applicable to most floors I'll start a new thread.

edit sure could see a combined product like a ditra membrane and the film be the next revolution in tile.

Last edited by interlodge; 09-09-2010 at 09:55 AM.
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Unread 09-09-2010, 06:55 PM   #13
daverogers72
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sorry need to correct myself its called fiberthemics sorry for the confusion I was actually told from the manufacture that you can nail it down between the coils not saying I agree but that what I was told.
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Unread 09-10-2010, 07:38 PM   #14
Jhereg
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might be something like carbonic heat.
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Unread 09-10-2010, 09:19 PM   #15
B Luv
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We use a product called Heat Is On. It's actually made for roof melt. It's as thin as the screens on your windows and you can put a few thousand nails through it. Only problem is, Sparkys are the only ones who can get there hands on it. Really cool stuff though, you can put it under cbu and nail right through it, or right uner the planks.

That's all I got.
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