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Unread 01-31-2022, 09:33 PM   #61
travisinfla
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thanks

Florida Code 2020 below not required on shower floor but walls seems to require waterproofing. So I'll need to assess whether to leave the floor as is, or have floor torn out and tied into the walls and bench. It has a good slope tho. If the walls and bench are water proofed, then the water that falls on the bench will go down the front of it onto the existing floor slope towards the drain.

R702.4 Ceramic tile.
Ceramic tile surfaces shall be installed in accordance with ANSI A108.1, A108.4, A108.5, A108.6, A108.11, A118.1, A118.3, A136.1 and A137.1.
R702.7 Vapor Retarders
Class I or II vapor retarders are required on the interior side of frame walls

SECTION 421 SHOWERS
421.1 Approval.
Prefabricated showers and shower compartments shall conform to ASME A112.19.2/CSA B45.1 or CSA B45.5/IAPMO Z124. Shower valves for individual showers shall conform to the requirements of Section 412.3.

421.4.1 Floor and wall area.
Bathtub floors, shower floors, wall areas above built-in tubs that have installed shower heads and walls in shower compartments shall be constructed of smooth, corrosion-resistant and nonabsorbent waterproof materials. Wall materials shall extend to a height of not less than 6 feet (1829 mm) above the room floor level, and not less than 70 inches (1778 mm) above the drain of the tub or shower. Such walls shall form a water-tight joint with each other and with either the tub or shower floor.

421.5. Shower floors or receptors.
Floor surfaces shall be constructed of impervious, noncorrosive, nonabsorbent and waterproof materials.

421.5.2. Shower lining.
Floors under shower compartments, except where prefabricated receptors have been provided, shall be lined and made water tight utilizing material complying with Sections 421.5.2.1 through 421.5.2.6. Such liners shall turn up on all sides not less than 2 inches (51 mm) above the finished threshold level. Liners shall be recessed and fastened to an approved backing so as not to occupy the space required for wall covering, and shall not be nailed or perforated at any point less than 1 inch (25 mm) above the finished threshold. Liners shall be pitched one-fourth unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope) and shall be sloped toward the fixture drains and be securely fastened to the waste outlet at the seepage entrance, making a water-tight joint between the liner and the outlet. The completed liner shall be tested in accordance with Section 312.9.
Exceptions:
1.
Floor surfaces under shower heads provided for rinsing laid directly on the ground are not required to comply with this section.
2.
Where a sheet-applied, load-bearing, bonded, waterproof membrane is installed as the shower lining, the membrane shall not be required to be recessed.
3.
Shower compartments where the finished shower drain is depressed a minimum of 2 inches (51 mm) below the surrounding finished floor on the first floor level and the shower recess is poured integrally with the adjoining floor.
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Unread 02-02-2022, 06:34 PM   #62
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Shower Floor Options

Since shower is sloped and drains properly, then why not just put a Kerdi sheet membrane over top of the existing floor, replace the existing drain, and tile over top of it, versus tear the entire floor out.
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Unread 02-03-2022, 07:38 AM   #63
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Possibly, Travis, but there's still going to be some demo work done to remove the old drain and properly install the new drain. I don't remember if Schluter condones installing Kerdi on toppa tile.

Unless I missed a clarification above, we're still unsure how the shower floor is water proofed.
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Unread 02-03-2022, 05:12 PM   #64
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The builder's contractor, Rite Rug Flooring's manager, came out today. Who knows what there ultimately going to do, but he said they can use Dural board which appears to be a waterproof foam board and then use Dural band on seams and over screws. Sounds like a Kerdi type system. The shower floor was not waterproofed, code doesn't require it to be. So, I can either leave it as, or demo the drain area, mortar it back, then eco prime grip on existing floor, then waterproofing over that into new drain or demo the whole floor.
Regarding the bath tub surround, it was not water proofed, but he thinks the tiles cracked and broke on that because of the weight of the tub, caused by the framers and or plumber who installed it. I think he's right because it bows inwards towards the tub, not supported well enough. I thought new construction was suppose to be maintenance free, lol.
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Unread 02-04-2022, 06:04 PM   #65
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What neighborhood/development are you in? I live in Nokomis,off of Laurel. Possibly I could come by and give you my opinion,first hand etc.

And BTW,I’m retired from installing etc,but would be willing to look at it for ya,if it would aid you in possible solutions,with your current situation.
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Unread 02-05-2022, 02:54 PM   #66
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Hi Autoplay

that would be awesome, its in Wellen Park, which is on US 41 just North of River Road, technically North Port, near Cool today park, Braves spring training stadium. Probably 20 minute ish drive from u tho.
Don't want to put my cell or address on here, are we able to send private messages
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Unread 02-05-2022, 03:50 PM   #67
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You can send him a PM, Travis.

Nice gesture, Rich. Thanks.
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Unread 02-06-2022, 12:07 PM   #68
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Sent Travis a PM,will try to set up a time/date etc,that works for both our schedules.
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Unread 02-11-2022, 05:54 PM   #69
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More Demo reveal

How's that for no coverage, tiles come off in sheets only held together by the grout except for the bottom tile. Not enough mastic.
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Unread 02-11-2022, 10:12 PM   #70
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Well, saying there is not enough mastic on shower tiles is like saying there is not enough masking tape holding the shingles on your roof.
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Unread 02-12-2022, 07:49 AM   #71
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Unread 02-12-2022, 08:36 AM   #72
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Well, if you're going to have to demolish it anyway, that's the kind of craftsmanship you pray for, right?
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Unread 02-12-2022, 11:32 AM   #73
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True story Kevin. Whenever I see a leaking shower, I say to myself "well at least the tiles should be easy to take out."
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Unread 02-12-2022, 01:24 PM   #74
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haha

Well I found a good contractor who did an estimate Friday, he's booked out a few months but from what I can tell that's a good thing, he knew about this forum from when he started out quite a few years ago, quoted TCNA, ANSI, licensed, and understands and insisted on waterproofing the entire shower. He prefers Kerdi board, for it's warranty and lack of mess. Same with floor, although Florida code does not require the recessed floor to be waterproofed, he thinks it would be a mistake not to, because, the water could go under the walls and wick up adjacent walls causing water damage.
Yep It will be an easier teardown, for the wrong reasons, it's not stuck to anything, how do you know if tiles have proper coverage, should there be some dried stuff on the back of tile if it's pulled? In those photos mostly nothing on the back of the tile and very light amount of mastic, was it the lack of mastic the mastic itself or both as to why there was no adherence of the tile to the substrate. Even if it had been waterproofed, it probably would have not been able to hold up tile on tile. They obviously used a very thin trowel. Like they were putting a backsplash up.
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Unread 02-12-2022, 03:36 PM   #75
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The point I was making with that earlier joke is that you shouldn't be using mastic to begin with in a shower. It's not water resistant and should never be used in wet areas. So you had 2 problems - lack of adhesion/coverage, and incorrect adhesive. You get lack of adhesion and coverage by doing things like mixing your thinset too dry and/or letting it skin over before installing the tiles, not using enough thinset and not pressing the tiles down enough to compress the ridges, not back buttering the tiles if necessary, etc.
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