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Unread 04-25-2022, 08:36 PM   #1
Sabrexr15
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Water Weeping under caulked walls

Hello Everyone,
I have a concern about water weeping under caulked walls next to the tiled floor.
I noticed a small water weeping from the caulk so I started removing the caulk and its pooling up behind the caulk.
I'm thinking it was coming from the niche area, because I put marble on the niche back nook. Keep in mind that this marble is a sheet of 1/2x4" piece sheet that is impossible to grout, so there is no grout inbeween each piece. (Dumbass choice)
So I covered up the niche to keep it from getting wet.
Took another shower today and its still weeping out.
Just now the wife used the shower and she noticed weeping from the other 3 walls.
1st question, Do you think its possible that water is seeping in from the area that has no caulk and flowing around the outer edge where the tile meets the hydroban board?
Starting tomorrow, I plan on ripping out the marble and installing a new solid sheet of tile in the niche, then recaulk everything.
2nd question, How can I know for sure that had solved the issue? Rip out the caulk and check a week later?
I am 100% sure the water is contained inside the shower because of all the water proof membrane and 2 coats of hydroban liquid membrane on erery corner, strip, nook and cranny you could think of.
Am I going down the right path or should I rip out the 12x24 tile and start over?
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Unread 04-25-2022, 10:33 PM   #2
Tool Guy - Kg
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Hi, Barry. Do you have a photo or two to share? And I’m losing you when you say it can’t be grouted…why not?
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Unread 04-25-2022, 10:38 PM   #3
jadnashua
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Neither the tile nor caulk are considered waterproofing in a shower, they're decorative, wear surfaces. Regardless of what you do, some moisture will get behind the tile, but how much and what happens then will depend on how the shower was constructed. Any horizontal surfaces should have slope towards the pan. All tile in a shower should have at least 100% of their edges, and at least 90% of the back of the tile fully embedded. Failing that, water can accumulate behind the tile and make it easier for more to get there in the first place. Lack of grout just increases how much moisture can get behind/beneath the tile.

I'll let one of the pros maybe guide you further.
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Unread 04-26-2022, 07:16 AM   #4
Sabrexr15
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Understood and thanks for the advice.
I have started pulling out the marble carefully.
Once I get all that our, I will reapply a coat of hydro ban liquid membrane just to make sure I didn't damage the board
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Unread 05-21-2022, 11:09 AM   #5
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Hello Fellows,
I'm still fighting the water leaking from behind the tiles. I can see it weeping out from the grout inside the far wall. also, a new leak just formed coming from outside the curb corner. What have I done wrong?
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Unread 05-21-2022, 11:36 AM   #6
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The following post is in response to what I see in the first picture:
I clearly see darkened moisture at the edge of the tile and I’m immediately suspecting the details of how the liner was installed. I’d specifically ask if you used “outside corner” boots on your liner where the wall meets the top of the curb. Normally, you’d use four for a typical dam curb. Then you’d cover the liner with metal lath and mud the inside, top, and outside of the curb.

You also said you used HydroBan. That makes me ask if you mudded your curb as I described? Or did you cover it with cement board and then coat it with HydroBan?

Do you have pictures of the shower during construction?

I’m probably not seeing what you’re seeing in the rest of those pictures. Perhaps some more descriptions for each picture and an addition picture showing where everything is within the shower so we know how they relate to each other?

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Unread 05-21-2022, 12:29 PM   #7
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Sorry, I did not take any photos of the curb. First I covered the 2x4's with 254 platinum thin-set under the HydroBan board on the top and both sides. Then wrapped Noble Seal membrane liner over the HydroBan board from inside, top & outside the curb. I put HydroBan membrane corner boot on the inside corners only. I put a strip of membrane on top of the curb to the walls and covered it with HydroBan Waterproofing Membrane and also rolled the Waterproofing Membrane on the outside curb and corners.
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Unread 05-21-2022, 07:09 PM   #8
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Ok, I’m trying to understand what you’ve got here. Please tell me if this is correct:

1) You covered all the walls with HydroBan Board.
2) You covered the inside face, top face, and outside face of the 2x4 curb with HydroBan Board.
3) You used a layer of 254 thinset mortar to bed the three pieces of HydroBan Board from #2 above to the 2x4 curb.
4) You used a piece of NobleSeal equal in width to the curb width to wrap from the inside face to the outside face of the curb on top of the HydroBan Board.
5) You used an outside corner boot on the inside face of the curb on the two ends, but not on the outside face of the curb at the two ends.
6) You used a small piece of NobleSeal to wrap from the top of the curb to the “jamb” wall. You did this on both the left and right sides of the curb.
7) You painted HydroBan liquid waterproofing membrane at all the corners in the shower.
8) You painted HydroBan liquid waterproofing on the corners of the curb on the outside face that didn’t receive the application of the outside corner boots as described at the end of #5.

Is 1-8 accurate? Anything to add or correct? If you want, you can talk about how you installed the niche. And pics of this are welcome.

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Unread 05-21-2022, 08:45 PM   #9
Sabrexr15
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Yes, to all 1-9 questions
For the Niches
Framed it with 2x4 making a box. With 1/8" slope like the curb.
Used HydroBan Board on all areas. Sealed all edges with HydroBan sealant.
Lined it with HydroBan membrane & thinset on all corners and bottom & face.
Coated Everything with HydroBan Waterproofing membrane.
Put the bottom tile in first, then the top and both sides.
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Unread 05-21-2022, 10:57 PM   #10
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Is the waterproofing layer on the curb, as well as the tile on top of the curb, sloped to shed water into the shower?
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Unread 05-22-2022, 09:51 AM   #11
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Yes, sloped towards the inside by 1/8"
2 coats of Waterproofing membrane was applied to every surface on top of the liner and HydroBan board walls, corners, top, and both sides.
Everything was totally green before tiling
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Unread 05-23-2022, 06:49 AM   #12
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Maybe I found the problem. I removed the black pencil molding under the niches. It was there to make up for the calculation error when the 12x24 tiles were set. The niches were 1/4" higher than the 12x24 tiles. So the molding was there to cover the gap under the niches. I cleaned out all the thin-set that I could and forced a new thin-set into every orifice/gap there was and applied new pencil molding. I will add new grout later today and then see if this solved the issue.
Thanks to all who help with this situation.
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Unread 05-30-2022, 05:21 PM   #13
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OK, I found another issue that I need to address. I seem to still have a water weeping issue in an area that I have never addressed. This area is right under the showerhead. The grout seam is directly in line with the grout line. About halfway down the wall, I see hairline cracks in the grout.
Is it possible that the water is seeping into these cracks and pooling up at the bottom near the floor? The area near the floor, where it is dark, I can see water coming from the grout ever so slowly. Should I remove the grout and regrout this?
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Unread 05-30-2022, 06:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry
The grout seam is directly in line with the grout line.
'Fraid you've got me there, Barry. Not sure just what you might mean.

As was pointed out in post #3, the grout in your tile installation has nothing at all to do with the waterproofing. Water will pass through the grout joints, cracks or no cracks.

If you have weeping from behind the wall tiles, my first guess is that your tiles were spot-bonded or otherwise bonded with insufficient mortar coverage on the back of the tiles. That allows moisture to accumulate and gravity feed down to the bottom of the wall. This is exacerbated by the use of direct bonded waterproofing membranes which don't allow for any liquid moisture at all to penetrate the wallboard or beyond.

I've seen this situation allow for liquid water weeping from the bottom floor/wall joints as much as two weeks after the last use of the shower.

Could certainly be at least part of your problem.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 05-30-2022, 08:25 PM   #15
Sabrexr15
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Hello CX
thanks for the reply, although I troweled the walls and back buttered the tiles with at least 1/2" of Platinum 254 thin-set, so no spot bonding was ever done. I am at a complete loss as to what's causing this issue.
The shower was last used Friday morning before we left town and I came home this afternoon to still see water coming from this area.
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