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Unread 04-13-2006, 11:27 AM   #1
pitterpat
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JB:drying time using Versabond b/w ditra & tile

John, or any others that use Versabond or a lightly modified thinset between Ditra & tile. How long do you stay off of it, let it dry b/4 you grout the floor? overnight, 24 hrs, 2 days.

thanks, Pat
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Unread 04-13-2006, 11:35 AM   #2
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Hi Pat
The past couple jobs we have done with porcelain tile we have had to stay off for 24 hours, otherwise we have found tile that are not quite set and as you no it is more dangereous putting weight on a tile latter in the setting process then early. Also with the mortar not quite "kicked" I think it contributes to the grout color not being uniform. Have nothing solid to base this on just setters intuition.
My 2 cents
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Unread 04-13-2006, 04:05 PM   #3
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Yeah, about 24 hours. That's why a lot of people skim the Ditra after they put it down. You can then set tile and grout in the morning. I don't use Ditra often, though. I use a lot of Kerdi.
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Unread 04-13-2006, 06:50 PM   #4
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So if I used Unmodified like Schluter asks for could I grout the next day? Also, Can't find Ditra set here in Indianapolis or I would try that.
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Unread 04-13-2006, 07:08 PM   #5
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So why would you use modified thinset on Ditra when it says not to?

But that's just me I don't like ditra Id rather just use CBU. But there are exceptions to every rule
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Unread 04-13-2006, 09:04 PM   #6
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Modified because you can w/o really hurting the application.
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Unread 04-14-2006, 10:08 AM   #7
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My suggestion...

I'd follow the manufacturer's recomendation.

No matter what.
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Unread 04-14-2006, 02:34 PM   #8
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Yeah, but you ain't me.

Just kidding, Nash. I've stated many times that I don't rely on manufacturers' warranties. For those who do, I agree wholeheartedly with Nash.
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Unread 04-14-2006, 03:56 PM   #9
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Nash, That's why you are a manfacturer's rep.

I usually follow the manf's instructions...even down to measuring out my water for thinset & grout. But when JB says you can do something I trust him and my workwomanship.
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Unread 04-14-2006, 04:29 PM   #10
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My little discovery!

On Monday I set Ditra with Versabond both for the underlayment and tile. Finished the job on Wednesday but was called back today to replace a broken tile. The finish carpenter dropped his air nailer on my floor So when I removed the tile from the door jam both the tile and the Ditra came loose. The Ditra pulled off the plywood in a complete layer. The thinset underneath the mat was still "green" and it was even a edge tile. Now I definitely no why I always use fast set with Ditra. When I started this job the Home Depot didn't have any fast set in stock so I used Versabond instead. Never again! Use fast set or dryset.
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Unread 04-14-2006, 04:41 PM   #11
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So Nash, should we also follow the mortar manufacturer's instructions? What does Latticrete recommend for setting impervious porcelian tile over an impervious water-proof surface?
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Unread 04-14-2006, 06:19 PM   #12
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Thanks Kevin, Sorry for your probelm. The capenters were a blessing in disguise.

Soo, are you saying to use Fast Set under the Ditra too?
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Unread 04-14-2006, 06:20 PM   #13
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Baited question...

We say:

If Schluter wants you to use unmodified, please follow their instructions.

There is quite a bit of....what should I call it....."conversation" about this.

What does the NATCA say? That's where it gets interesting.

Follow Schluter's instruction. Please.

That way no one get's bent out of shape.

I hear that they will also warranty the use of a rapid thinset as well.

We like that too. (I personally like that more.) Most rapids cure with out much air.
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Unread 04-15-2006, 01:02 AM   #14
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Thanks for the reply Nash. Sorry to poke at a delicate situation, but... ( )
I've heard all about (and been a part of) the conversation on this subject. I've just never heard a real person from either membrane or mortar manufacturer try to justify the bad position they both have put us, the intallers, in.
So no politically correct answers about just following the membrane guidelines. What I want to know is, if I use plain dryset on impervious porcelain tile, will my warranty with Latticrete be voided? If I came to you with a bonding claim, your company would never, ever deny a claim & tell me that I shouldn't have used plain dryset with porcelain? Your plain dryset is fully approved for impervious porcelian tiles?
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Unread 04-15-2006, 12:28 PM   #15
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Pat, use a full/super flex to bond the Ditra to plywood. Personally I use TEC Superflex for the floor to fleece bond. I also prefer to let that set ovenight before setting tile if possible. If you ever have to lift a tile you don't have to worry about the ditra pulling loose from the floor.

While you can set tile right away I worry about traffic on top of the ditra so soon. I also worry about the bond strength of loosely mixed (overwatered) thinset that Schluter wants you to use under the Ditra and kerdi. Any thoughts on the loosely mixed issue anyone?
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