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Unread 02-22-2010, 01:51 PM   #1
Tucker3878
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Permabase Cement Board

Apologies in advance if these questions have been answered previously...but I did try to find the answers before posting. I'm absolutely new to tiling, the only thing I heard was that cement board is better to put up than Aquaboard, Greenboard, etc. if you plan on tiling, tile will stick better and be even more moisture resistant.

So I just finished drywalling(Aquaboard) and cement boarding(Permabase) my new basement bathroom(bathroom is new, basement is a 1975 model!). As I was reading I became concerned that I did not have vapour barrier in behind my cement boarded tub surround. Then I read that I should be able to just seal the cement board and not have to worry about the poly. So first question(get ready to groan, shake your head, roll your eyes, but still answer!!)...do you mud the joints of the cement board with something(please specify what that "something" would be) and THEN seal it, and if so, what should I use to seal?

And as long as I haven't pooched the hole project by my actions above...is there a special drywall mud/compound used for aquaboard joints, or the joints between aquaboard and Permabase? I have a whole slough of other questions for you guys if anyone is up for the challenge/entertainment/headache!! I don't think I'm in over my head, just need some direction from experienced people like yourselves!! Thanks
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Unread 02-22-2010, 01:58 PM   #2
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Use a roll-on waterproofing membrane like Redgard or Hyro Ban to waterproof your tub surround. Tape and mud all the CBU-to-CBU and CBU-to-drywall joints first. (CBU = Permabase) Use CBU tape (not drywall tape) and thinset. Work the thinset out carefully so as not to make a speed hump on your walls. After the waterproofer is dry, caulk the tub to CBU joint with 100% silicone caulk.
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Unread 02-22-2010, 03:00 PM   #3
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Welcome aboard, Curt.

Use regular drywall joint compound outside the shower. The CBU tape Bob is talking about is a mesh -- looks like mesh drywall tape, but it's not. Use thin set inside the shower over the tape.

RedGard is sold at Home Depot in the States; not sure about Canada. It is made by Custom Building Products. http://www.custombuildingproducts.com

Hydro Ban is made by Laticrete. http://www.laticrete.com
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Unread 02-22-2010, 07:43 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbcamp
Use a roll-on waterproofing membrane like Redgard or Hyro Ban
or Hydro Barrier
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Unread 02-22-2010, 11:13 PM   #5
Tucker3878
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Thanks for the advice guys, puts my mind at ease, the video on Laticrete seemed pretty straight forward too. So is there any preference to a particular sealer??

So where the CBU meets the green board I use the alkali resistant tape and thinset? or drywall mud? I only carried the CBU out about 3" from the outer edge of the tub and then the green board starts.

I tend to go a little cross-threaded trying to tape and mud drywall, so I'll be hiring out the tape and mud for the green board and conventional drywall. Is there a certain kind of mud used for green board? Just in case they try to fleece me!!

One more question, I read on here it's not good to use green board on the ceiling above the shower?? That sucks, cuz thats exactly what I did!! Any words of wisdom/relief on that one guys? Thanks again for the quick response, I'm figuring out the whole "search" option now so I may not ask QUITE as many stupid questions...
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Unread 02-23-2010, 06:04 AM   #6
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Greenboard sags more than drywall. Take the time to remove the greenboard and replace it with drywall, or go into the attic and add blocking for support.

If the tile covers the Permabase to greenboard joint, use the CBU tape and thinset.

I'm not aware of any special joint compound for greenboard.
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Unread 02-23-2010, 04:49 PM   #7
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OK, so I went to Rona (cuz it's right across the street from our office) and picked up the tape and 100% Silicon Caulk for Kitchens and bathrooms, and also picked up thinset mortar I think it's Versabond??

I asked one of the guys there that deals with a lot of the contractors about mudding the joints and whether I should buy the versabond or the versabond flex, and he said all the guys he deals with get is the regular versabond, so I did too. He also told me you don't need to mud the joints because it all gets covered over by the thinset in the end...I'm going to forget he told me that, because it makes sense to me to mud the actual joints(because I'll be sealing the works) before thinset and tile, and because you guys told me otherwise.

They looked at me like I just introduced them to running water when I asked them about Redgard, Hydro Ban, or Hydro Barrier, they said you either have to have vapour barrier behind the CBU or use Ditra, and from what I've read, Ditra is pretty expensive, the the roll on sealant seems way easier to apply. I know I'm not the only one who has a hard time relying on hardware store staff for advice, but I feel sorry for the folks that DON"T have people like you to set them straight!! Thanks again
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Unread 02-23-2010, 04:52 PM   #8
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P.S.-I'll pick up a sheet of regular drywall on the way home, thanks Bob. We screwed up the measurements on that greenboard on the ceiling anyways, and it was going to drive me crazy...
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Unread 03-02-2010, 10:29 PM   #9
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Thinset on CBU-to-greenboard joints

So I've FINALLY gotten back to the bathroom reno, I'm taping the joints/corners using the mold/mildew resistant green mesh tape(think thats the right stuff), taped all the CBU-to-CBU joints, currently taping the CBU-to-greenboard joints.

I may have a small esthetic issue regarding the bulkhead that run perpendicular to the tub at the end of the tub(see pictures). I CBU'd right up to the bulkhead, and that seem carries all the way across the back wall, so I don't know how much I'll be able to overlap the tile over this joint (I could just notc the tile at the junction of the bulkhead and carry on). Just not sure about the thinset application, if I feather it more onto the CBU and avoid spreading it too far up the greenboard(can you paint over thinset and have it look good still?) or if I only go say an inch onto the greenboard and make sure I cover it all with tile in the end.

Kinda finnicky stuff here, but I don't wanna have to start over or backtrack. Hopefully the pictures explain more than my babbling...
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Unread 03-02-2010, 10:49 PM   #10
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Sorry guys, one other thing. A minion from HD talked me into getting the Schluter-KERDI-BAND and using this in the corners of the surround for "extra peace of mind", now I'm all about peace of mind, but do you think this stuff is necessary?? I can still take it back...
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Unread 03-02-2010, 11:04 PM   #11
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Welcome, Curt.

You fixin' to cover the whole inside of your shower with Kerdi? If so, the Kerdiband can be very helpful, specially if you're working alone.

I can't see where a decision was taken on your method of waterproofing, but it certainly appears that you must now do it on the inside as I see no moisture barrier hanging over your tub flange.

Still looks like MR board onna ceiling, too. How thick is that? What's the joist spacing?

What's the stud spacing on that wall with the plumbing in it?

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 03-02-2010, 11:32 PM   #12
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Looks like about 20" to me CX, With that greenboard, the only option left is kerdi. The showerhead is nearly pointed at that greenboard soffit at the other end.

Keep the Kerdi band, grab a tube of kerdi fix, grey versabond and some kerdi fabric and git-r-done.
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Unread 03-03-2010, 02:01 AM   #13
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Tucker,

It looks like the Permabase does not go over the tub lip, maybe it is just the photo.

If you use Kerdi make sure you cover the tub lip.

Even though I just would have run the Permabase all the way to ceiling I don't think the greenboard will get much direct moisture. The shower head will be aiming down, not directly at the soffit. But I would waterproof up to the ceiling.
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Unread 03-03-2010, 08:58 AM   #14
Tucker3878
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CX,
I did go out and buy a pail of Redgard(think one pail should do it) because you are correct, I didn't put vapour barrier up behind the CBU. I thought I could run a bead of caulk at the junction of the tub flange and CBU, and then another one at the bottom of the first row of tiles.

Ya there's still greenboard on the ceiling (1/2") haven't tore it down yet, course I installed IT before the walls so the fit for the reg drywall's gonna be a PITA. When I ran a straight edge along this section of joist, the one joist was up 3/8-1/2", I didn't sister it, just skipped it, figured it wouldn't make that much of a difference. This section of floor joists are a bit of a dog's breakfast as far as spacing, it's below the upstairs bath so there are a couple on 16" centers, the then there's a bunch on 7 1/2" centers...ya, fun.

The studs WERE 16" on center, but I had to move one as it was going to make hooking up the tub a pain, so I moved it over, there is a stud to the left of the shower head, mixer valve, etc., just didn't think I'd need to screw to it(but by the way you guys are inquiring, I hammer a couple screws into it tonight!!)

I wasn't planning on using Kerdi in the shower at all, and if all sources say the Kerdi Band in the corners is unnecessary, then I won't, as I don't want to spend the kids college fund on this bathroom!! I was gonna tape and mud the joints(still not sure on the CBU-to-greenboard joints), then redgard over all the CBU, joints, and thinset at the top and sides(again not sure how far out to mud onto the greenboard as we haven't picked out our tile yet to figure out spacing), and then start the glorious task of tiling.

By all means grill me on any other suspicions you guys might have, as I am obviously oblivious!!
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Unread 03-03-2010, 09:05 AM   #15
Tucker3878
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Cabot,
I've likely got enough CBU left over to go right to the ceiling, just didn't wanna tile that high, and am not convinced I could just paint the CBU. I heard Kerdi is expensive stuff and that Redgard is almost as good and easier to apply.
That nipple out of the wall is just that, the actual shower head as Homza said will likely be on a 45 down into the tub.

Again, any more questions I can supply answers to is more for me to ponder/improve on, thanks.
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