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Unread 03-26-2021, 09:00 PM   #1
laostrich
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Renee’s Bathroom Reno

Hi everyone,

All under subfloor work is done and 3/4” advantech subfloor is laid down and pretty much set on my layout on only full bathroom in the house.

The room size is 90”x 144” and the original joists are true 2x 5 1/2” 22” spaced and span about 4ft. Each joists that sits on the room lengthwise, where toilet and tub were, had some water damages, so those two joists are sistered and top of that, added 2x6 joists in between original joists so now each joists are 11” spaced. I’m moving the tub by two windows and have built a 2x6 pony wall coming out of that window wall. Then tub will be placed parallel to the pony wall.

I’d like to go with kohler tea for two 5ft reversible drop in tub in an alcove setting. I understand it is not the most ideal/ reliable option but with an aluminum angle or bead in flange they sell, with regular maintenance, hopefully I’ll get reliable material tub that will last many many years. I have a kohler undermount sink and I really like how sturdy it feels. And because now the joists are still sitting pretty close together, above floor drain installation (which T42 allows with their feet part#1172). is the only option I can put the tub by the wall.

My questions, if anyone who has a tub or build a deck for T42 tub in 5ft ( model # K-850) can share the space between the tub outer well to top tub rim edge. I prefer tile installed flush to the tub rim or rim sticking out little bit more rather than conventional drop in tub deck where the tub deck protrude beyond tub rim edge. I called Kohler customer service today and was told that the shallowest space being little shy of 3 1/2” to the widest being 3 3/4”. Could anyone out there installed 5ft tub version had said space? Even 3 1/2”, conventional 2x4 deck won’t allow me to have flush tile look I mentioned earlier. In that case, can you rotate 2x4 so that 3 1/2” will facing the front rather than 1 1/2”? Or would you use 2x3 framing?

One tub is actual t42 tub tile flush to it but this might be 5.5ft version that has a built in tile flange, can’t do it because of above floor drain restriction and even if somehow I manage to elevate the tub for above floor drain, it will be too high to use as a tub/showers combo. 5.5 ft is already 24” high. The other pic is American standard studio suite but again, I really prefer cast iron tub. Then aerial view of my 90% decided layout. Haven’t done rough plumbing yet and I’ll have professional help since all three bathroom fixtures are moving along the vents. I’d really like to get the tub before rough plumbing to ensure smooth installation. Any help would be greatly appreciated it!

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Unread 03-26-2021, 11:32 PM   #2
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Renee,

I recently installed that American Standard Studio Suite tub you posted about. Stay away if possible! Rough-in for that tub is a nightmare, but can be done. See my thread here for some details and a couple alternate tubs you should investigate if you wish for an alcove tub with tiled apron.
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Unread 03-26-2021, 11:49 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renee
In that case, can you rotate 2x4 so that 3 1/2” will facing the front rather than 1 1/2”?
That's precisely how I framed the American Standard tub I installed. I haven't looked at the rough-in for the Kohler unit you mentioned, but I will stress to you that the vertical supports at the front of the tub need to be perfectly plumb, and the tub installed perfectly level. If not, it will be difficult to make the tiled apron look nice.
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Unread 03-27-2021, 07:29 AM   #4
laostrich
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Your project came out really nice, Phil!. Yours is exactly how I want my tub to be. It is nice to read detailed progress.

I did tiny powder room tile work few years back as a first tile job ever with reading everyone else’s process and experts from this website, such a great community. I already forgot most of step already though not to mentions whole new reads on the wall waterproof process for the shower/tub. I’ll go ahead and place an order for the tub. Thanks!
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Unread 03-27-2021, 08:16 AM   #5
ss3964spd
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I'm getting ready to install a very similar tub, Renee, mine is the Kohler Archer. Kohler makes a similar one with lightly straighter lines. Both are available in left and and right hand drains.

I chose the Archer specifically because A) it has a tiling flange and B) because Phil had such a miserable time installing the American Standard.

The reversible drop in's don't have a tiling flange, which makes water proofing a bit more challenging.

https://www.amazon.com/KOHLER-K-1946...00D1CRK6G?th=1
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Unread 03-27-2021, 10:05 AM   #6
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I went over the spec sheet and installation instructions for the Kohler Tea-for-Two tub. The spec sheet doesn't list the rim width so it's tough to tell how exactly the framing will fit it for your plan to have a tiled apron. We'll kinda have to wait and see once you get the tub. As for the waterproofing, Kohler has part # k-1179 for sealing a flangless tub. If I was up against such a situation, I'd opt to use the wedi Tub Sealing Tape with waterproof Butyl connection strip instead. The steps for making such a connection are outlined on page 66 of the latest Wedi technical handbook here.
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Unread 03-27-2021, 01:24 PM   #7
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I know I should listen to practical side of me and should get a built in tile flange suitable for an alcove installation, but... just like kitchen countertop decision, I succumbed to beauty., choose marble . No kids and will be a forever home so I’m pretty confident that I’ll keep up the maintenance it will need.

Oh well, I’ll think it over this weekend and who know, might reconsider. Since I’m pretty set on getting a cast iron tub, I looked into Kohler highbridgeName:  8B7092C2-9617-4CD8-B005-D481C21AF373.jpg
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I’ve got a questions on the framing. I should have put some blockings prior to set this 2x6 pony wall but here I am realizing it but later, since it’s not structural, would it be okay to add blockings top and bottom of the wall horizontally? Can’t slide 2x4 vertical with the pony wall.

Phil, I’ll read what you sent me tonight, haven’t even decided what kind of underpayment going to use yet, so I’m open. Hardin a jet was used in a powder project and I don’t recall me struggle.

SS3964spd, I’ll follow your progress closely, I can only work in a weekend and I don’t have much of experience, looking forward learn from your process and advices you will be getting
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Unread 03-28-2021, 06:40 AM   #8
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What's the pony wall for, Renee? Regardless, yes, you do need some blocking. Not necessarily to support the pony wall - you can attach it to the wall studs behind it, but to pick up the edges of whatever wall panels you'll be installing around it.

I understand the attraction to cast iron but keep in mind that tub is heavy - to the tune of 400 some pounds according to Kohler. Being in an alcove means it will be hard to maneuver, and it's certainly not going to be lifted over any framing by a couple of people. Plan accordingly.
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Unread 03-28-2021, 10:37 PM   #9
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Hi Dan,

Thanks for the reply, I figured at least I should have all blocking cut and ready incase I get a confirmation, glad went ahead and cut all blockings and pocket holed, ready to installed once the rough plumbing is done. Speaking of rough plumbing, could any one let me know I should add blockings after rather than before? I’m moving plumbing lines so there will be lots of new vent pipes and drain pipes etc and wondering I should wait until all work is done or it’s better to have them make holes on already installed blockings for structural strength purpose.

The pony wall is built because I didn’t want any traditional niche and since the tub/shower combo will be by window, I wanted to put the tub as far as I can within the room allows.. here is an inspiration pic.Name:  D250FC3A-FD64-491B-8C90-671CC9BB5D1B.png
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I’m overwhelmed with all these material choices doe tub/shower. I’ve decided Ditra heat for the floor but still lost on what system to choose. I’m going over to Phil’s and will ask him why he chose Wedi system.

Seeing video clips of showering system failures really frightening :/
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Unread 03-30-2021, 05:48 AM   #10
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Ah, now I understand the pony wall. Keep in mind that you want the top of that pony wall sloped towards the drain, and not just the finished surface, the framing as well. If that top board isn't sloped now, do make it so.

Certain wall boards - indeed most of them, intended for showers require wall stud spacing at 16" OC. The spacing can be less, but shouldn't be more. In any event you'll want to give your plumber enough space to install the plumbing bits. Some are better than others about working around the framing without hacking it out to the point of uselessness, but even the best can't work around a stud, or joist, that is positioned exactly where the shower valve, or drain, needs to be.
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Unread 04-01-2021, 10:12 PM   #11
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Thanks Dan for leaving me a note on sloping. I was going to come back around the time to add underpayment to ask here about how/what materials to make slope but I’m glad that I haven’t done anything yet! ( I’m waiting on window restore to get the currently painted to shut windows to be working condition so that I’ll get some fresh air and help steam from the tub. I do have a fan but it is on opposite side of where the tub will be so I don’t anticipate it will be effective as it used to be) So I’ve been reading here and there about tub/shower fixtures and there are lots of information there! Haven’t order the tub yet as I found a local Craigslist sale on the tub and will go take a look this Saturday. If that doesn’t work out, I’ll just go ahead place an order. Since the tub has a reversible installation and allow above floor drain installation, my too tight joist won’t be an issue. But yes, well noted on the too close studs/joist is not good either.

So... about making top of this pony wall sloped.. I’ve already mounted this 2x6 with three deck screws on each studs ( I know it was overkill.. started with one on the centers that I later learned that better to have them screw each ends so I just added additional two without tacking original center screws out. I really don’t want to unscrew them if I can make the top portion sloped with some trick that you might have ( hopefully) not because lack of motivation but fear of making two many screw holes on the subfloor.

This thread will become my bathroom project so wonder if the forum will let me change thread titile?? Also I’m not sure how I can turn email notification. I just randomly came by to check out what others are choosing showr/tub fixtures
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Unread 04-01-2021, 10:38 PM   #12
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A moderator can change your thread title any time you'd like to suggest one, Renee.

You can subscribe to the thread if you click on Thread Tools near the top of the page.
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Unread 04-01-2021, 10:38 PM   #13
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You need a minimum of 1/4" of slope per linear foot, so for that 6" pony wall, you're only talking about an 1/8" or a bit more. I think you should be able to shim whatever board you plan to use on top without having to remove the framing. If you do shim it, be sure to get full support under whatever material you decide to use on top of the framing... you don't want any gaps under there that could cause flexing or unnecessary movement.
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Unread 04-02-2021, 07:05 AM   #14
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Renee,, if you screwed that top 2X6 of the pony wall the the 2X6 pony wall studs, just back the screws out, get some wood shims from your nearest big box store, cut them to the thickness you need - 1/8", slide them between the studs and top 2X6 at the rear, and run the screws back in. Done.

Let us know what you'd like your thread retitled to, we'll make the change.
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Unread 04-02-2021, 06:06 PM   #15
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Renee’s bathroom reno

Hi, Couldn’t really come up with a catch title, so above will do

Okay, guys, thanks for the ideas, I think I can manage making it sloped
by taking top plate off, add shims then put the top plate again. Thank you!
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