Epoxy vs Regular Grout

[SMC]

Thank you for this great forum. It has been a great help in my first attempt at building a shower and tiling it. Johns' book was a great help and I built a Kerdi Shower with 12" Brushed Marble walls and 2 x 2 Tumbled Travertine for the floor, a niche and a band around the shower.

My question know is about grouting it. I had bought Spectralok a year ago (it's been a long project) and just discovered that you are not supposed to let it freeze. It was outside all last winter.

Since I need to replace it, I am wondering if I really should use it with the Traverine because there are a lot of holes to be filled and I am concerned about filling the holes and getting all the epoxy off the surface. Also one wall tilts in at about a 30 degree angle and I have read that the epoxy is difficult even on verticle surfaces.

Would I be better with regular grout since it is a Kerdi shower?

[Brian in San Diego]

Steve,

Grouting isn't any more difficult with one over the other. The advantage of Spectralock grout is that it never needs to be sealed. It also resists staining and mold better than cementious based grouts. that being said the ultimate choice is yours. Many good things are being said about Laticrete's Permacolor grouts and if I opted to go with a cementious grout their line is what I would be choosing.

I agree that clean up of the epoxy can be a little trickier than cementious grout.

Brian

[woods1966]

I had a good experience with epoxy.

As said, slightly more involved to clean up but not that bad.

Forms an incredibly tight seal.

Used it on a backsplash where I wanted very hardcore sealing and it worked very well. Am considering using it on the floor of our master shower.

My conclusion is it's a good product for smaller-specific applications (backsplash, shower floor) where you want a very strong seal.

[sandbagger]

did my shower in SpectraLock and it was the first vertical grouting I had done. No problem.

There is one school of thought that argues against epoxy with stone. While epoxy doesn't need sealer, travertine does. So why bother? You are going to have to seal one way or t'other, right? Might as well just seal the whole thing. OTOH, if the area is susceptible to staining (good use for epoxy), it may not be a good place for natural stone.

[Jeremy Hillary Boob, PhD]

I've only done one tiling project, and that was a bathroom with "pebble" tile (entire floor and a couple of walls---lots and lots of pebble tile). I used spectralock (lots and lots of spectralock) and it seemed to work well. Some of the stones I used have rough and/or pitted surfaces, and bits of grout are still embedded in those surfaces. I believe that any spectralock that gets into the pits in your travertine will be well nigh impossible to completely remove. But, if you just want to remove it from the surface (leaving the pits filled), I don't think that would be a problem. Of course, I can't really compare spectralock to regular grout, since I have no experience with the regular stuff. In any case, if I were you, I'd try a small test case first.

[Muddman]

Well Brian, perhaps not more "difficult", but definitely more work.

I havent used regular spectralock in a while, but I am told spectralock pro is easier to use on walls.

and the argument of why use epoxy on stone if you have to seal the stone. Well, the stone isnt as porous as the grout, and the grout would discolor and stain easier than the stone, so why not use epoxy grout.

[SMC]

I agree with you Sandbagger about where to use natural stone, but the Misses gets what the Misses wants.

Jeremy, I want the holes filled so that is ok. With the "pepple" tiles, I assume you had some uneven surfaces, you didn't have trouble leaving the grout and not leaving a film?

I guess what bothers me the most is that it appears that you have about 1 hour (maybe more here in Montana) and if you didn't get it cleaned well enough, it ain't ever coming off.

Also, Is there any advantage to doing the walls first or the floor. What about the Spectralock on the wall that is tilted in where gravity will be pulling it out? I have read that it has a tendancy to pull out of verticle joints.

[Muddman]

walls before floor, always.

the spectralock should be fine even if the wall tilts out.

yes you want to get as much of the haze off as possible. But if you have a light film it will come off beyond just an hour with a little elbow grease, as long as it is on a smooth non porous surface.

[Jeremy Hillary Boob, PhD]

With pebble tile, it's all about uneven surfaces---see the attached picture. It took some patience, but no, I didn't have any serious trouble getting the epoxy film off of the surface. I did replace the water/vinegar solution whenever it got too dirty, and that might help.

It is true that you need to work efficiently. The first time, I used one of the mini packs that I picked up at Lowes (I don't know if they still sell it), but after that I used the full full-sized "pro" packs (about 4 times the size of a mini). On the floor, time was not a problem, but it definitely went slower on the walls. It took me a while to get my technique for the walls. Part of the problem was that whenever a blob of that expensive grout fell on the floor, I would scoop it up and reuse it. That happened a lot at first, less so as I got some experience.

Contrary to the standard advice, I did the floor before the walls, and I'm glad I did it that way. The floor is much easier and without that experience, I'm sure I could not have worked efficiently enough (at first) on the wall to prevent the epoxy from solidifying before I was done. Once the floor was done, I waited a couple days, then covered it with a plastic sheet before doing the walls. I did have to do little cleanup around the edge of the floor, but it was not a big deal.

I didn't have any surfaces that went beyond vertical. I did notice that if the grout got too wet as I was sponging it, it would "run" down the walls a bit (yet another reason why the floor was easier). I wouldn't say it was actually sagging, but it would get sorta that look as the water was running down the wall. Of course, I don't have any experience with regular grout, so maybe it's the same for that stuff.

Finally, one strange thing about the color. I used "bright white" and it started off so bright that it almost hurt my eyes to look at it. Over time, it slowly faded to almost off-white---now it is noticeably less white than the sanded caulk that I put around the edges. This is not due to dirt or grime, since this holds true for areas high up on the walls that never get touched. Nevertheless, I will definitely use Spectralock when I tile my kitchen countertop and when I remodel my other bathroom.

[JimmyJohn]

FYI- Most I know, including myself don't bother with it, but some manufacturer's make an epoxy additive to stiffen the epoxy for cove base or wall application. I know Summitville does for their S-400 for a fact, one is called wall & counter and the other is S-120 cove-base additive. I'm not sure who else does but know there are a few others.

[sandbagger]

Originally Posted by Gregg

...but I am told spectralock pro is easier to use on walls.

Nope, no difference, and I say that from experience with both on the same shower. I had finished most of my shower (using "Pro") when I ran out. (Those pebbles take a LOT of grout!) Being a weekend (Sat afternoon) my tile shop was closed and my Lowes was/is 10 minutes away. I had been told by a Laticrete tech they were the same (minus the wash packs) so I took the plunge.

I was glad to find out that there was no apparent difference in how the two versions mixed, applied, and cleaned up. My shower floor is about 1/3 non-Pro SpectraLock. I have no idea where the two versions meet - there is absolutely no difference in appearance, and it's been in daily use now for almost 2 years.

fwiw - I was told that Laticrete made a significant formula change to Spectralock a few years ago (5-ish?), and that the sag problem refers to the old version.

oh, here's my floor and shower

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...2&postcount=48

[Madam]

Does the Spectralock look and feel like grout or does it look and feel like caulking?

[sandbagger]

grout - and very nice grout at that. It is very hard and the color is much more consistent than Portland, at least in my somewhat limited experience.

[Madam]

Thank you Art.

[Jeremy Hillary Boob, PhD]

Originally Posted by sandbagger

Nope, no difference, and I say that from experience with both on the same shower. I had finished most of my shower (using "Pro") when I ran out. (Those pebbles take a LOT of grout!) Being a weekend (Sat afternoon) my tile shop was closed and my Lowes was/is 10 minutes away. I had been told by a Laticrete tech they were the same (minus the wash packs) so I took the plunge.

I'll second that. For my bathroom, I used one of the mini units and all of the rest was the "pro". There is no observable difference in the results, and they were exactly the same to work with. Other than the magic washing crystals (and properly diluted vinegar works just as well) and the size of the packs, there is no difference.