Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 04-26-2012, 11:08 AM   #1
My Dream
Registered User
 
My Dream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 493
Front Porch Steps In Need Of Repair.

Afternoon everyone:

Approximately 20 years ago we had our front concrete porch and steps tiled in 8”x8” porcelain (le Pietre P0328 Quartzite IG.lp.QZT.0808.NS2). The installation was excellent and lasted all these years until couple years ago I was quite upset when I remove the ice on the steps before company came over. Needless to say I removed the ice it with the spade of a shovel, but come summer most of the tiles were cracked.
The original tile setter retired so we went with one that was recommended and the photos below are the end results as of yesterday. Since the original tiles are in great shape on the porch itself I only want to replace the stair tile. Unfortunately the tiles have been discontinues and after 6 months of searching I found the apparent 50 left in existance local to me but it has the ridges on the top specific to steps.
My plan is to try to remove all tiles that have a hollow sound and remove existing thin set from said tile so they can be saved. Those that can’t be saved will be replaced with the new top ridge tile replacement which I’ll leave for the (winders) landing of the two bottom rows, (angled steps). I also want to remove existing grout as I probably won’t be able to match the color plus I want to use epoxy grout this time.

Questions.
1. What would be the best method to remove the existing thin set off of the existing removed tile in order to relay?
2. What prep work should be done to the existing concrete before new tile is installed?
3. What is the best method to remove the existing grout on the top porch area?
4. What brand of thin set is best for this installation?
5. Is the present pattern of the tile on the two bottom landing the correct layout?
6. Any other suggestions or comments are welcome.


Thanks
Attached Images
     
__________________
Frank

Last edited by My Dream; 04-26-2012 at 12:49 PM.
My Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 04-27-2012, 06:19 AM   #2
My Dream
Registered User
 
My Dream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 493
Thanks for the reply Bob:

1. Angle grinder it is and I'll put a 4.5" 50 grit sanding disc on it.

2. Called up the big box store re what was available for concrete roll on waterproofing under tile and they were stumped so I need to do some research. I'm from Canada.

3. I think a hand grout saw my take too long so I'll check out the sawzall blade version or maybe the tip below on a dremel. I'm hoping it will work just as good but not damage the porcelain and be somewhat faster.

4. I was told by the stores "I'm sure we have it in stock", come in and take a look. At least I have the information.

5. I guess my question was, what is standard in the industry?
Attached Images
 
__________________
Frank
My Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-27-2012, 07:17 AM   #3
tileguytodd
Official Felker Fanatic
 
tileguytodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Northern MN
Posts: 14,398
I think you are going to be chasing the tigers tail for Years to come.

Exterior installation have a finite lifetime. While you only have a few problem areas now, the remainder of your installation will start to show its age also and more area's will give out.

The amount of labor to clean up Many tiles is only cost effective if most of the installation is feasible to save, however, with a 20 year old exterior installation It is my opinion ( consider, I am now retired after a lifetime of tile work) That you would be Money ahead to simply Demo the install and Find a New tile to install for the entire area.

Yes, in the short run this will cost you more but in the long run it will not only save you money, but many and continuous headaches with this area for years to come.

Tile lasts a long time but the continued Freeze/ thaw, Moisture /drying out of the Thinset breaks it down over time. Generally, you will get added time in area's that are covered by a roof and see less moisture and direct sunlight. If the area is Not covered generally these area's give out first....expect up to 25% additional time on the covered areas so maybe 5 years or so before these area's must be replaced.

It does not matter to me what you decide to do either way, its Your Money!!

If you do replace it all, Be sure to get a Frostproof tile ( another porcelain is a good choice but there are other options also.

Daltile has some options that are less expensive than most yet still have the trim tile you will require...
__________________
TIP YOUR TILE MAN, His Retirement plan is not nearly as lucrative as yours and his waning years will be far more painful to boot.
He gives much so you can have a Beautiful Home!!
tileguytodd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-27-2012, 08:03 AM   #4
My Dream
Registered User
 
My Dream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 493
Todd I do value your opinion and will take that under consideration.

This is my point of view:
  • Every tile on the top landing is solid and not scratched, every year I power wash it with only water and it comes out very well.
  • My only problem seems to be with the installation of the steps which were done in recent years, therfore the previous installer seems to have done a poor installation.
  • I've already purchased the remaining stock on the existing tile and they can not be returned, therefore material is already paid for.
  • Should the end result be as you've suggested, then I will have better experience to redo it when the time comes. Hopefully a better budget also.

Thanks Todd.
__________________
Frank
My Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-27-2012, 10:01 AM   #5
Gary K
Vendor
 
Gary K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: North Florida
Posts: 1,017
I think Todd makes valid points about paying "less" now or "more" now. And also with the existing tile even deteriating more. Basically it boils down to when do you want to spend the money.

I am a little confused, is the tile that is missing what was laid by a second person or is that what got messed up from scraping the ice?

If it was laid by the second person, then they might not have used a preimum thinset that was rated for the conditions. One thing you will learn around here is too not scrimp on the quality of your thinset. An extra $20-$30 a bag is worth not ripping something out and the hundreds or thousands of dollars to correct it.

As for the layout, BBcamp hit the nail on the head. If you like it, then it's good. Industry standard dictates certian things but sometimes layout is in the eye of the beholder.
__________________
Picking them up and putting them down.

Gary




Gary K is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-27-2012, 10:25 AM   #6
My Dream
Registered User
 
My Dream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 493
The original tile/installation had no issues what so even, I was responsible for cracking the porcelain tile with my shovel and brute force.

The condition of the stairs in the photo is the result of the cracked tiles being replaced by what I consider to be a poor installation by a pro tile setter.

I have no problems with purchasing quality thinset as I believe the base is very important. However, I prefer to take the recommendations of fellow pro members of this forum than that on the tile stores rep.

I would have redone the complete steps if I were able to purchase more of the exact same tile. At this point, I’m not going to question whether I should redo the whole porch since the tile has been purchased. I'm going to move forward and install what new tiles were available and save what existing ones I can, but I want to make sure it's done properly with the proper waterproofing and installation.

Thanks Gary.
__________________
Frank
My Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
tiling over rock and concrete front steps sherie Professionals' Hangout 4 08-30-2005 04:52 PM
Semi-Covered Front Porch and Steps Thrill Tile Forum/Advice Board 2 06-17-2005 04:55 PM
Front Steps Problem Bri Professionals' Hangout 15 05-14-2005 08:46 PM
Tile a front porch + steps TomR1972 Tile Forum/Advice Board 6 04-29-2005 08:48 PM
Grouting joins in leaky front steps. What to use? Phillipo Tile Forum/Advice Board 1 08-02-2002 07:04 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:04 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC