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Old 02-19-2002, 11:06 AM   #1
bcbonzo
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Getting very good and strong quality porcelain tile for kitchen/dining area that use to be two rooms. Exising flooring isold dining room and hallway) 3/4 hardwood plank with heavy vinyl tile over it. (old kitchen) couple layers of old linoleum/vinyl with 1/4 ply to bring it up to level of 3/4 hardwood, and same heavy vinyl tile over it. Vinyl is structurally sound (no curling edges...) Dred the thought of ripping all this up (5 kid/ 3 dog household). I was told I can wire mesh over all this and thin set tiles down with good results. Any big problems with this? Thank You
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Old 02-19-2002, 03:43 PM   #2
Bud Cline
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YES!!!

There's a big problem with this, who you been talking to?

The existing flooring you describe is in my opinion too prone to movement for tile.

I would suggest taking it all out and starting with the original subfloor.

You keep going and you'll have to "duck" just to walk thru the place!


Now watch, John will scream that he disagrees with me but he won't say why. Just watch.

[Edited by Bud Cline on 02-21-2002 at 07:13 AM]
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Old 02-19-2002, 04:21 PM   #3
John Bridge
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Must be my day to disagree with Bud. I'm no backer board pro, but I think there is at least a possibility that you could use cement backer board over the existing floor. Let's see if someone else has something to say about that.

I KNOW you have something to say, Bud.
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Old 02-20-2002, 12:37 AM   #4
Jaz
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You should remove everything, down to the subfloor. The method you described is called "scratch coat". Total junk! (A DIY retail store must have recommended this method to you)? The cement board over all may work? But not a preffered method. Isn't it getting kinda high anyway?

When in doubt...Rip it out!

Jaz
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Old 02-20-2002, 12:42 AM   #5
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Talking When in doubt,,,

Actually it went... When in doubt..whip it out!

That's what I was taught at Airborne Ranger Training. (I think they meant the reserve parachute)?

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Old 02-20-2002, 06:03 AM   #6
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Oh man, here we go with trained killer stories. I was a dyed in the wool, confirmed "leg," Jaz.
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Old 02-20-2002, 12:18 PM   #7
bcbonzo
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Thank You all for your input. One of my concerns about ripping out all.. is the older layers of lanolium in the kitchen may have asbestos. It's been there for a long time (house built around 1950).
The tile store owner(about 8 stores in NYC metro area) who is an aquaintance through one of my kids told me I could do it this way. (no profit on sale motive here) Can I try - rip out kitchen top vinly and 1/4 ply (which is screwed down), rip out old 3/4 hardwood from old dining room, and build that a little to meet kitchen level, and cover this all with 1/4 backer board??? Thanks again for input and advice!!!
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Old 02-20-2002, 04:24 PM   #8
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I would not worry for a minute about asbestos. In fact, I can guarantee you that linoleum that old will contain it.

It's not a problem, though, unless you somehow get a bunch of fibers airborne, and that's not going to happen. Sprinkle the floor with water when you scrape it up, and wear a dust mask.
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Old 02-20-2002, 09:25 PM   #9
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Wink

You remove the 1/4" underlayment, whatever is stuck to it stays. If you get down to the last layer and find it's glued to the original subfloor, (1/2, 5/8, 3/4)? then maybe it's ok to leave it. Or remove as John said. If the oldest sheet vinyl's backing is dark color, it is felt paper.


John,

"leg"? I guess that's infantry? My MOS was mortars, then "LRP". Long range patrol. We were the ones that took a looong hike behind enemy lines. If needed.

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Old 02-21-2002, 06:41 AM   #10
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Yeah, well I was the guy who kept your paperwork straight while you were out in the bush. Obviously, my job was more important.
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Old 02-22-2002, 10:02 PM   #11
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That's for sure! "No job is complete...until the paper work is done".

Jaz
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Old 02-23-2002, 10:51 AM   #12
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I was SO happy to see you guys say "rip it out"...my daughter was NOT happy when I told her the same thing in her kitchen (Navy girl, down in VA) - she has 3 or 4 layers of vinyl, and they just wanted to put backer board on top. I told her to start visiting here & read the posts to get a feel of what we'll be tackling.

Besides, I'm really looking forward to our first mud job - after all the fine advice here (and John's book) I'm convinced we can tackle it (though I'm sure we'll be back with lots of specific questions once those vinyl floors are finally up!). Can't do that on top of 4 floors!

Laurie
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Old 02-24-2002, 10:33 AM   #13
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Old 02-24-2002, 01:02 PM   #14
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Hey that new Yellow mesh stuff is supposed to be stapled directly to vinyl and thinsetted with the special thinset. Food for thought.

Anyways until this mystery material is better known or has proven itself I would not reccomend it to you, better to go with proven methods.

The first couple layers and sub would probably be easy to remove and not contain asbestos, the cut off date when they quit using asbestos is 1981-83 so that might be of use to you.
Howabout removing those layers and using cement board, I would set the cement board on a good glue residue free surface(possibly directly under the 1/4 underlayment) instead of on any vinyl felt or tar paper or glue residue that might complicate things.
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Old 03-26-2002, 03:24 PM   #15
bcbonzo
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Unhappy

After mulling it over, Bud and Jaz "you be right", I'm gunna (whip)-I mean rip it out and start from scratch. Don't know what I'll find under the bottom layer, but... If it looks bad, I'll be back. Looking to start while on vacation (4/22)Thanks Again
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