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Unread 10-13-2020, 07:45 AM   #16
ss3964spd
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It depends. Pre-fab'd split jambs often use small staples and glue to attach the casing to the jambs. If you're really careful to might be able separate the casing from the jamb with a thin but stout 4" putty knife but, in my experience, while you can save the jamb you'll trash the casing. In any case, you'll likely have to first make multiple passes with a razor blade knife to cut through the paint and, if there is any, caulk, before you even try separating the casing from the jamb. I've gotten pretty good at it, but it is tedious.

The door size; a 30" door for the bathroom is generous, a 24" door is the minimum. Your proposed shower is 34". Decreasing the door size presents an opportunity to increase the shower width, something you'll most certainly appreciate. I don't know what things look like on the other side of the door but if you can make it swing out of the bathroom instead of in that would help too. Just my opinion, natch.

Regarding the baseboard; to me it depends. I very much dislike when wood base board trim abuts a bathtub or otherwise dies into a tiled surface. But if you won't have any of that going on it would look fine. I opted for tile base for my MBR.
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Unread 10-13-2020, 08:10 AM   #17
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See this is why a forum like this is so valuable. I never would have thought about changing door dimensions or anything. So you're saying shrink the door a little bit away from the closet wall, which would then force me to bump the closet out a few inches, but also provide me a wider shower opportunity. I'll have to look at that and do some measurements. Especially around the future shower door and how close it will come to the vanity when open.

For wood trim there would be one spot where it would hit up against the shower tile wall. It would originate off the right side of the vanity, go behind the toilet, behind the free standing tub and faucet, under the window and then hit the shower wall.

Tile question. Do all tiles have some bullnose available in the same size/pattern? Wondering how to end the shower wall as well as if I do a tile trim. Maybe it's in John's bathroom tear out book. I haven't gotten to part 2 yet.
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Unread 10-14-2020, 06:09 AM   #18
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Yes, that's what I was thinking with the door. From an ergonomics point of view having the door swing past the front of the vanity is a challenge for whomever might be using that left side sink so if you have the space in the bedroom for the door to swing into it that would be better. It also depends on how you and Mrs. Charlie use the space; if the door is rarely used it might be a non-issue. If you don't want to change the swing, and decide to not make the shower and closet deeper, then changing the door to 24" will pick up some space at the front of the vanity and the door won't be much, if any, wider than the closet when opened against it, maintaining easy access to the shower.

Just tossing out some considerations.

I believe 36" between the front of the vanity and the front of anything else is generally consider a standard clearance for ease of movement through a space.

I think you're going to have a challenge with the shower door itself if you do the curbless design. Given the proposed dimensions of the shower, and the location of the shower head, the door is going to need a sweep (seal) on the bottom of it which is likely going to drag on the floor when opening and closing it, and will eliminate the option of a bath mat. Then there is the matter of hinging it. I think you'd have to hinge it on the closet side as I'm not sure you can hinge it on the glass side unless you secure the top of the panel it hinges from. A pivot hinge at the bottom might be a no-go as it would need to be screwed into the floor, likely compromising the water proofing. You might want to check into the options before you start building it out.
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Unread 10-14-2020, 06:44 AM   #19
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Don't all shower enclosures, whether they are curbless or curbed, frameless or framed need to be secured into the floor one way or another, potentially compromising some waterproofiing? But if it is addressed with kerdi fix or silicone caulk I figured it'd be ok. How would the panels be secured differently if I was using curbs?

I don't want a glass door hinged off a glass panel. To me that's a big no-no. I was thinking either hinged at the closet door or maybe even the door on the back of the shower toward the new tub. There is a window there but it's not like you can't pull the blinds to prevent flashing our back neighbors.

Well I'm glad I am not doing this until winter. So many things to think about and consider and plan. Quite overwhelming actually, as I haven't really gotten past the shower design yet.
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Unread 10-14-2020, 07:28 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie
Don't all shower enclosures, whether they are curbless or curbed, frameless or framed need to be secured into the floor one way or another, potentially compromising some waterproofiing?
Yes, but if you're only talking about a fixed glass panel it doesn't need to be as securely mounted. A heavy, movable panel needs more reinforcement.

In the pic of mine I posted above the glass panel is secured at its outer most end by a single bracket on the floor, and that's only to prevent it from flopping about. The bracket is held in place by a short screw set in epoxy, and the hole was drilled only to a depth equal to the thickness of the floor tile, not through through the water proofing. The short screw acts only as a locating pin. The brackets do not support the weight of the panel at all; it actually rests on small, clear plastic spacers on the floor and on top of the knee wall.

A hinged door either hangs from the hinges which must support its weight, or rest on a bottom pivot which, in addition to supporting its weight, must also resist the twisting action of the hinge.

Placing the door at end near the tub; it doesn't appear to me that there's enough space because of the tub. Putting it there would also mean you'd have to walk all the way into the shower to turn the water on so you're likely to get wet and/or be cold until the water warms up.
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Unread 10-14-2020, 08:22 AM   #21
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Ahhh I see you don't even have a movable door. Just an opening you walk in. That's interesting and really sleek. If I did that I'd have to move my valve all the way over to near the window but that's an external wall and not an ideal place to run the pipes. Plus the potential of water getting onto that window could be problematic. Man this is really hard. Maybe I should engage a designer of some sort. Every idea I come up with seems to have a roadblock in the way.
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Unread 10-14-2020, 08:41 AM   #22
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Most everything involves a compromise.

To solve the shower valve placement challenge you could go with an electronic shower valve. The actual valve assembly could be mounted in the closet wall, and the touch controller(s) can be mounted almost anywhere. I have two; one outside the shower and one inside.

Yup, more expensive, but solves the problem. Just another option.
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Unread 10-14-2020, 09:56 AM   #23
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More expensive sure but I might be able to reduce my shower enclosure cost by at least that much. What unit did you get? I didn't even know they existed.

So do you need more readily available access to the shower valve after installation than a traditional one?
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Unread 10-14-2020, 10:53 AM   #24
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The unit I used is by Kohler, their most "inexpensive" model. Moen also makes one, which has more features at around the same price point, but I didn't care for their controller for various reasons.

Yes, you do need to provide access to the valve assembly by way of an access panel. In your case you can pull that off by installing the access panel in the closet. You'd only need to make the closet shelves removeable so you can get to it. You will likely have to re-frame that closet wall to make it fit, but that's just 2X4's.

https://www.us.kohler.com/us/dtv-two...brandId=431227

https://www.us.kohler.com/us/dtv-pro...brandId=785778

Mine has been up and running for over a year, zero problems.
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Unread 10-14-2020, 11:51 AM   #25
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Great info, thank you! I did research the Moen a bit but will look at the Kohler as well.

Now I gotta figure out if I can pull off a doorless shower and see if that's an option. Not sure I have enough space. I could put a glass panel across the 34" back area and then only have a 24" panel coming from the closet wall, leaving me a 28" opening. That would keep water off the window.
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Unread 10-15-2020, 06:15 AM   #26
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Hate to hash your chill, Charlie, but first hand experience with my shower indicates, rather strongly, that a 24" panel on the closet end isn't going to cut it. Water is going to get on the floor.

The pony wall in my photo above is about 28" long, and the glass extends another 28" past that. When showering with only the head on the end wall the splashed water covers a good bit of the glass panel, less at the top and end, more concentrated lower and closer in. If that 28" long pony wall was a 28" long glass panel there'd be water, a lot of it, on the main floor. See photo.

Instead, perhaps what you could do - given your proposed layout and shower dimensions (51/34), is run the glass panel from the closet out to, oh, 39" and then the end panel off the wall to, say, 22". Didn't do the math so adjust those two number so the opening equals at least 24". I think the 39" will take care of it, and whatever little does make past will easily be taken care of by the bath mat - without it getting soaked.
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Unread 10-15-2020, 01:23 PM   #27
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Great insight. So if my 7th grade geometry doesn't fail me, to get a 24" diagonal opening I would need the long pane on the 52" side to be 36" while the plane coming out from the wall next to the window would be just 15" That would leave me with a 19" x 16" opening, of which the hypotenuse (our opening) would be 24.8". I would run kerdi membrane probably all the way from the opening to the back wall where the tub is now.

I am still toying with leaving the free standing tub out completely. We have another bathroom with a tub just down the hall. The space from the edge of the toilet to the window is only 77" I don't think anything bigger than a 65" or 67" tub will fit without looking cramped, and even then it may be. Plus I'm 6'5" and my wife is 6'0" and I just wonder if we'd even fit in a 67" tub. Not to mention we NEVER use the garden tub we have now and that's more spacious than a freestanding tub. I could use that wall space for a heated towel rack possibly and maybe some art work.
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Unread 10-16-2020, 06:56 AM   #28
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You actually remember 7th grade geometry? Huh, I struggle to remember what happened 7 hours ago.

Eliminating the tub does open up some possibilities, and is exactly what I did in my master bath overhaul since the hall bath/guest bath has a standard tub.

The funds saved can be put back into the household coffers or diverted to other luxury appointments. A motorized, remote controlled shade for the window comes to mind.
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Unread 10-16-2020, 07:41 AM   #29
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Back into household coffers? LOL. I budget like the US military. If I don't spend it, I won't get it next time! I think the tub saves me nearly $1,000, with the tub and faucet. Might divert a little to slightly better tools for this job as well as maybe the ditra flooring heat solution. I did read it needs its own circuit, at least according to the docs and need to see viability of making a cable run from the 2nd floor bathroom to the basement.

Wonder if I run that circuit if I can piggy back the electric shower valve off it.
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Unread 10-16-2020, 08:35 AM   #30
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Yup, you'll need, and want that dedicated circuit for the floor. If anything goes wrong with the floor you don't want it taking out lighting or the shower valve.

You can use either the lighting or receptacle circuits to run the valve, it doesn't draw much, but it does have to be on a GFCI protected receptacle or circuit. My shower valve is run off the dedicate 15A circuit for the 4 bedroom ceiling fans.

When I did my MRB I already had one spare circuit in the attic that I ran years ago for when I got around to doing the MBR, but at that time I hadn't considered the heated floor. So I did pull two more for the bath; also from the basement to the 2nd floor. Approximately zero fun, that job, but worth it.
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