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Unread 10-10-2011, 10:38 AM   #1
BIGPHIL
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Phil's bathroom remodel...couple of questions

Hello everyone! Wow...this place is a wealth of knowledge! I have spent hours reading over material, this place is great

So...I'm in the process of remodeling my bathroom and have a couple of questions for you all.

1) I am using HardieBacker 500 for walls/ceiling (all will be tiled with 3/8" porcelain) and am wondering about the tubs tiling flange. The directions for the tub say to stop the cbu just above the flange and to then run tile down past the flange and just above the tub lip. I have seen this method as well as where people are saying to bring the cbu past the tiling flange just above the lip. This makes sense to me, but is proving to be a real pita (bowing of cbu). I have seen people say to maybe use furring strips to bring the wall out a bit, but I cannot find 1/4" furring strips anywhere...I dont have a table saw to make my own (plus it means I have to take down a couple of cbu's...not fun for me). My idea was to possibly install some blocking that sits flush with the the tiling flange and cbu and then run a heavy bead of caulk along this gap above the flange. Would that be a good idea? I am also going to be using Kerdi for the waterproofing and was also thinking of just running it down past the cbu and into the tiling flange area, but there would be about 1" of kerdi that is not attached to the cbu via thinset...just kinda laying there. Would that work/not work? I already have a couple of walls up and was planning on putting the tub in tonight, but will hold off until I see what the experts here say.

Edit: Another idea I just had...so if I were to just hang the Kerdi down into the lip area, could I just then lift it up a little and shoot a bead of Kerdi fix under there and call it good? Or another idea...before hanging the last boards that would go into the tub lip area, just run a router along the last inch of Hardi (rabbet groove) to take it in an 1/8" inch? Would that weaken the board to much?

2) The tile I was planning on using is this...Century Discovery Matite Mosaic. Its a 3/8" porcelain that is kinda rough to the touch. Would this be ok for a shower...possibly a pita to clean? I really like the stuff and it looks amazing, so hopefully some good news on this question ;-)

Thank you in advance for any assistance!
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Unread 10-10-2011, 10:53 AM   #2
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1) If you are using Kerdi, install the backer to just above the lip, then run the Kerdi over the joint and glue it to the lip with Kerdi fix.

2) I'm from the school of making my life easier. If a tile looks like it may be difficult to keep cleen, look for something else. If you must have that tile, put it somewhere that cleaning is less a problem.
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Unread 10-10-2011, 11:21 AM   #3
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Bob,

I really appreciate your answer :-) I like the idea of running the kerdi past the cbu and into the lip area the best...it will make my life easier and my girlfriend less pissed at me

The color we want to get is "Patagonia" so it is quite dark and maybe wont show dirt/grime as much. I'm so tired of looking at tile and working on this project, so I think we may just end up getting this line of tile as we both agree on it. This house was built in 1943 and the bathroom remodeled by an idiot before, so I am trying to do things correctly this time to save somebody in the future from having to do it again.

Edit: Bob, just so we are 100% clear here...are you saying that it would be ok to run the cbu to ABOVE the tubs tiling flange, meaning the cbu is NOT inside the flange, and then run the Kerdi into the flange and glue it to the tiling flange with the Kerdi Fix? Just want to make sure 100% before I go any further.
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Unread 10-10-2011, 03:23 PM   #4
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Phil, that is exactly what Bob meant.
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Unread 10-10-2011, 03:32 PM   #5
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Marge,

Perfect...thank you! I love this place!

I'll post some pics of the progress on this project when I get some time with the camera. I've researched for about a month and think I gotta pretty good beat on what to do so everything comes out looking like a pro did it
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Unread 10-10-2011, 05:00 PM   #6
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We'll hold you to the commitment for pictures.

If you have anymore questions, please post them in this thread so all your info will be in one place. Good luck!
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Unread 10-10-2011, 10:40 PM   #7
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Thought of another question for the pros. I plan to use Kerdi for the waterproofing, should I use it on the ceiling as well? I WILL be installing tile on the ceiling and I currently have HardieBacker up there.
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Unread 10-10-2011, 11:06 PM   #8
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You don't normally need waterproofing on your ceiling unless you're building a steam shower, Phil.

You did ensure that your ceiling framing would tolerate the additional load and you did review James Hardi's requirements for fastener types and schedule for that application, yes?
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Unread 10-11-2011, 04:18 AM   #9
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I see you got your answers, Phil. Next time, please don't edit your post after it has been answered. Additional questions often get overlooked, whereas a new post will bump your thread to the top of the stack.
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Unread 10-11-2011, 08:58 AM   #10
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@ CX - I believe the ceiling framing should hold fine, its has some strange spacing (full edge support on one side and some horizontal blocking on other side, 12" oc stud locations) and I used the 1 5/8" BackerOn screws for the ceiling and walls. I also put quite a few of the screws in the board (probably every 6" or so and then about 6-8" on the walls). For the walls they all have full face support at all edges as I added some blocking in the walls.

@ Bob - Yes, I see how it could get missed...I will not do that in the future.

Hopefully that should be enough to hold those up there. Well...if I dont need to waterproof the ceiling, then I suppose I wont.

I do have another question for you all. I was reading a few threads and am kind of put off by using the Kerdi against the HardieBacker because it seems that some beginners are having issues getting the unmodified thinset to stick good enough, even when they apparently wet down the boards with a sponge/spray bottle). What do you think? What would be better for a beginner....Kerdi or a liquid membrane? If liquid, which do you prefer and why? Thanks again everyone...you all provide some great information for the community that is invaluable to us rookies
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Unread 10-11-2011, 05:20 PM   #11
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? to the pros (as well as if anybody has a comment on my previous question in post #10).

Question is this...I have a feeling that I am going to have to level a small portion of the subfloor that is also going to be receiving some 12"x12" porcelain tile (maybe 5'x5' section) ever so slightly. I had to rip out the area from water damage so trying to line it up with exisiting good subfloor. Subfloor in this area is going to be a combination of 3/4" plank as well as 3/4" plywood (t&g if possible, but I have a sheet of Exposure 1 plugged ply that would probably work with additional blocking in the joists at the seams). What should I use to level the floor? sanding will probably not get my close enough to level...I'm going to need some sort of filler or use some SLC. I plan to use Ditra on the floor which I know requires modified mortor for going down on ply, but would I use the modified mortor over the area that is likely to have some SLC on it as well?
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Unread 10-11-2011, 08:19 PM   #12
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Phil, you can use any manufacturer's waterproofing product if you use it per that manufacturer's recommendations.

Kerdi over Hardibacker requires some different care in application. Might be one of the reasons the Kerdi manufacturer recommends sheetrock as a backer and has gone to some lengths getting code approval for the method.

But it can be installed over Hardibacker if the Hardibacker is properly dampened and the mortar is mixed correctly and the proper trowel is used and the Kerid installation instructions followed. It'll work.

Liquid-applied waterproofing membranes encounter the same problems going over Hardibacker and at least a couple membrane manufacturers publish methods of "priming" with their product in that application. That'll work, too.

Your floor tiles don't give a rat's patooti if your floor is level. Larger ones do care a good deal about your floor being flat.

If you're installing Ditra (or any other membrane) over a wood floor you must use a modified thinset mortar meeting ANSI A118.11. It'll say that onna bag. If you have patches of other acceptable material on the floor, you'd still use the same mortar.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-11-2011, 09:48 PM   #13
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@ CX - Thanks for the heads up. I am beginning to regret choosing the HardieBacker more and more. Maybe something like Permabase would have been better? Also...for clarification, are you saying that the bathroom floor tiles that I will be using (12"x12") dont care about the floor being totally level??? I may have mis-interpreted what you said.

I just picked up a bundle of lath to use as furring for the studs to bring them out about 1/4" so I can properly overlap the tiling flange with the cbu. Is this an acceptable material to use for this? I figured hell.....they use it to build walls, should work ;-) I will hold off on putting it up until I hear a confirmation from a pro.

I have also been looking back into the liquid waterproofing membranes a bit more. I am kinda leaning towards Laticrete Hydro Ban. They also have that Admix and Primer. I read the datasheet and it says its compatible with cement boards, but says to check with the manufacturer first. I wonder if I were to use that and then the Hydro Ban. Would that eliminate the issues with getting the Hydro Ban to stick well to the HardieBacker?
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Unread 10-12-2011, 04:43 AM   #14
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Phil, there is a difference between level and flat. Level is a plane perpendicular to the earth's gravity. Flat is no deviation from a plane, regardless of the plane's orientation with respect to gravity. A wall can be flat; a floor can be level and flat, or just flat or just level. Your tiles want your floor to be flat, they don't care a whit if the floor is level.

Lath is fine for furring the studs. Please proceed, even though you didn't hear it from a tile pro.

Hydro Ban will stick to Hardibacker. Follow the instructions. "Dampen hot, dry surfaces and sweep off excess water—installation may be made on a damp surface." You really don't need to prime. Wipe the board down with a wet sponge. This does two things: 1) removes dust, 2) wets board. That's enough.
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Unread 10-12-2011, 10:50 AM   #15
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Got it, Bob. I will verify that the tub walls and bathroom floor are flat before laying anything down. With regards to the HydroBan...I will do just as they say, so hopefully everything will turn out looking good. Thanks again for the help. I will update if I run into any issues or have any other questions.
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