Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 01-10-2021, 08:55 PM   #31
MesaTileworks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Staunton, VA
Posts: 206
We are hoping to install small hex tiles in one or both bathrooms. I understand Ditra is not an option for anything this small. What’s the next-best crack isolation solution that can be used for small tile? I see that Aquadefense makes some claims to crack isolating properties, but intuitively, it doesn’t seem to me that it would be as effective as a non-liquid membrane. Are there other options?
MesaTileworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-11-2021, 07:02 AM   #32
PC7060
...unrepentant, detail focused, over-analyzer.
 
PC7060's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,891
1/4” concrete backer underlayment. Follow manufactures instructions; thin-between CBU and subfloor, fastened per schedule.

Good luck with that small hex tile. You setting in sheets or individually?
PC7060 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-11-2021, 07:44 AM   #33
MesaTileworks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Staunton, VA
Posts: 206
Definitely laying sheets not individual (I didn’t know anyone even did those by hand anymore ). I was thinking 1/2” concrete board for a bit of extra oomph, but could go 1/4” if there’s nothing to be gained by the extra thickness. I guess the 1/2” seemed sturdier but I’m open to suggestions.

In addition to the CBU though, I’d wondered about adding Kerdi or a liquid membrane (or something else?) for the extra crack insurance and waterproofing.

I guess I’m curious what more experienced folks are doing in this kind of situation (bathroom floor but not a wet area, old house, small tile...)
MesaTileworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-11-2021, 07:47 AM   #34
MesaTileworks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Staunton, VA
Posts: 206
Additionally, another question has come up: when is it recommended to use subfloor plywood and when would exterior glue ply be better? Working on another project I noticed that the recommendation for the self leveling compound was to use exterior glue plywood for the subfloor. Are there particular applications where this makes a difference?
MesaTileworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-11-2021, 09:43 AM   #35
ss3964spd
Moderator
 
ss3964spd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfax, Va
Posts: 4,190
Send a message via Yahoo to ss3964spd
Matt, CBU doesn't technically add any stiffness so 1/2" CBU isn't necessary unless you just need/want to add height to the floor.

Some people do like to add water proofing to the main floor. Note, however, "water proofing" only the floor, without also sealing the floor to wall joints isn't, in my mind, water proofing. Any small amount of water that may get on the floor won't hurt the tile, mortar, or CBU. If you believe enough water will get on the main floor to soak the tile, mortar, and CBU I respectfully suggest you've got other problems. If you want to add a membrane (sheet or liquid) for crack isolation then go for it.

Exterior glue plywood is recommended any time you are applying a product mixed with water to the plywood. The moisture can soften the glue in regular plywood, resulting in possible delamination. Exterior glue resists that.
__________________
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent, but my ability to access it is intermittent.
ss3964spd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-11-2021, 10:44 AM   #36
MesaTileworks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Staunton, VA
Posts: 206
Cool, that makes sense—thanks for the info. Any opinions on whether Kerdi, Aquadefense, or some other product does a better job of crack isolation? And yeah, I’m more concerned with that than with waterproofing since it’s not a wet area. The moisture control is just a side-benefit. I’d be using Ditra for sure if we weren’t putting down small-format tile.
MesaTileworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-12-2021, 10:40 AM   #37
diddly
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 67
mud it

Nail off the floor to tight en up the 1x6s Nail down tar paper and self furring galvanized meta lath Get the heaviest most rigid lath you can find 3.4# or as close to that as possible..Mix up 4 to 1 concrete sand to pure portland with about 2/3 water 1/3 mortar admix (Laticrete 3701 is good ) to a dry pack consitency. Off the high spot put down 3/4 inch maybe a bit less and set spots of dry pack at the entire perimeter with levels and straight edges: using the original high spot mud as leveling spot for all the the succeeding mud work. Quite honestly I cant say I have ever in over 40 years come across a better method to attain a level, flat, structurally integral floor for tile or stone.

If nervous about strength install install a sheet of Ditra or comparable product over the mud in a day or so after mud dries some.

Bookie
__________________
Bookie
diddly is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-12-2021, 06:37 PM   #38
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 92,793
Bookie, the ceramic tile industry does not accept the method you propose over sawn board subflooring, only over minimum nominal 3/4" plywood over maximum 16" joist centers. That would be TCNA Method F145. The expanded metal lath requirement there is minimum 2.5 lb. Your 3.4lb. would work, of course, but be more difficult to work with. Same for the 4:1 mortar mix with the additive; more difficult to work than a 5:1 mix with water. Minimum mortar thickness would be 3/4-inch.

If you want to install a mortar bed directly over a sawn board subfloor you'd need a minimum reinforced mortar bed of 1 1/4-inch thickness with an appropriate welded wire mesh in the vertical center. That would be TCNA Method F141.

I certainly agree there is no better way to prepare a floor for a tile installation than an appropriate mortar bed.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-12-2021, 07:35 PM   #39
MesaTileworks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Staunton, VA
Posts: 206
Anyone have thoughts on radiant floor heating systems? Our local tile shop sells Warmup. Curious about the pros and cons of different brands. We are planning on small hex tile so I’m assuming that that rules out Ditra Heat... but the guy I talked to at the distributor said Warmup has better wires anyway.
MesaTileworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-13-2021, 06:51 AM   #40
ss3964spd
Moderator
 
ss3964spd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfax, Va
Posts: 4,190
Send a message via Yahoo to ss3964spd
How small is the hex tile you want to use, Matt?

Your distributor's claim is dubious. "Better" in what way? While there may be some differences from one brands' wire to the next I feel any differences will be inconsequential. Barring any measurably meaningful performance difference ease of installation would drive my decision.
__________________
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent, but my ability to access it is intermittent.
ss3964spd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-13-2021, 09:50 AM   #41
MesaTileworks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Staunton, VA
Posts: 206
We are planning on 1” hex tiles so need something that can accommodate that. Ditra Heat doesn’t allow for tile that small. Warmup looks to be ok for tile that size, as it’s designed to be covered in a layer of mortar or SLC prior to laying the tile.
MesaTileworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2021, 08:08 AM   #42
MesaTileworks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Staunton, VA
Posts: 206
Also, any experience or opinions on NobleSeal TS or CIS?
MesaTileworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2021, 09:03 AM   #43
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 92,793
In what application, Matt?
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2021, 10:39 AM   #44
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 33,272
Matt, Ditra heat wires are probably larger in diameter than Warm up. Of course the Ditra heat wires fit nicely in the Ditra mat which keeps the floor nice and flat without wires sticking up. Years ago before Ditra Heat was made, we installed a lot of Sun Touch and other brands that had smaller diameter wires but the wires were woven into a mesh that we would roll out onto the floor. We had to use a lot of hot glue to get the mesh and wires down flat on the floor. I know you can't use Ditra Heat but I wouldn't say the smaller wires were better. It was a PITA to work with in my opinion.

I will add this, keep in mind that mosaics are not very easy to work with. Before you start setting, get the substrate as flat as you can. Be careful for small speed bumps in CBU where you apply the tape. Mosaics will follow any wave in the floor. There's no buttering up mosaics like there is with larger tiles. If you try, you'll fill the joints with thinset.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2021, 11:12 AM   #45
MesaTileworks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Staunton, VA
Posts: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by cx View Post
In what application, Matt?

Under mosaics as a crack isolation membrane.

We’ve got two bathrooms, both with small tiles. One is getting a heated floor, the other is not. So wondering about an alternative to Ditra for the floor that’s not getting heat.

As for the wires and hot glue, I’ve vivid memories of what a PITA those were from a job many years ago. It’s my understanding that Warmup has wires that snap into a poly sheet similar to Ditra Heat.
MesaTileworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New house, old bathrooms edeichert Tile Forum/Advice Board 2 05-07-2018 04:12 PM
Old house kitchen reno hmccull Tile Forum/Advice Board 7 08-13-2009 08:38 AM
Help, new house with shower problems!! MAXTBSS Tile Forum/Advice Board 4 06-20-2007 05:48 AM
Tile problems in new house Danrules Tile Forum/Advice Board 16 01-16-2007 01:17 PM
New house shower tile problems AL1 Tile Forum/Advice Board 3 07-28-2006 09:01 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:17 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC