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Unread 10-18-2020, 04:40 PM   #61
Davy
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I wouldn't use a chipping hammer since you want to save the pan. It would be very easy for the bit to go too deep and poke the hot mop. Usually, once you get a place started, it will come up in chunks clean off of the pan liner. But, I haven't removed a mud bed off of hot mop since 1979 so I can't remember how well the mud wanted to bond to it.

I would beat on it with a hammer and slowly break it up hitting it lighter and being more careful the deeper I go.
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Unread 10-19-2020, 09:20 AM   #62
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Thanks Davy.

I am in discussion with the GC about possibly separating.

Revisiting Davy's comment about a rub brick, does it require a lot of manual labor to rub brick mortar? For example to take 1/2" off along the back perimeter so that the perimeter is flat and level for the tile?
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Unread 11-04-2020, 11:37 PM   #63
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Hello my GC is hiring a new tile guy starting next week. We shall see how this turns out.

I realized that my shampoo niches are not square dimensionally. For example on this niche one side measures 4.75" and the other 5.25". You can see how the niche floor is wider on one side. The prior tile guy hack made the niches and seems like he just eyeballed the hardiebacker board dimensions rather than using exact measurements. Is this the normal way to do it? Can this be corrected with extra thinset when the tile is placed or should I demand the new guy to redo the niches?

Thank you!
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Unread 11-05-2020, 06:53 PM   #64
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Sometimes I'll do some minor leveling and squaring up with thinset but usually when it's 1/8 or less. I'd rip it out and start over. Your new tile guy may have other plans.
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Unread 04-11-2021, 11:49 PM   #65
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Bump. Hello pros, I posted this thread several months ago for a shower disaster with a custom large shower stall that I hired an idiot GC and his bad tile setter. The ~103 x 45" shower stall finally got done but the 3" porcelain hexagon mosaic shower floor with epoxy grout is not even. There are multiple pieces with lippage. The worst ones I marked with blue tape (there are 64 pieces). I do think it slopes to the drain correctly, for the most part. I hired a separate tile guy for my backsplash, who says he can repair it by

1) Replacing the marked blue pieces individually. He says it will be better but still not completely smooth since lowering one end of the tile may raise the other end, etc.
2) Redoing the shower floor by demolishing all the hexagons, smoothing the underlying thinset and/or mortar bed underneath and then placing the mosaic hexagons correctly. He says he will either float a layer of thinset to smooth the bed and/or grind the mortar bed down smoother. He says he can do this without damaging the underlying hot mop. The hexagons abuts (not underneath) the side shower walls, but I think are actually under the thin tile strip for the shower curb, since I think the GC put in that shower curb tile piece last.

I would like to be educated on the risks of both (1) or (2), if with regards to damaging the shower wall, shower curb or waterproofing underneath. I obviously would like to get it fixed and absoultely would like to avoid a tear out redo...
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Unread 04-13-2021, 01:42 PM   #66
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IMO, Kevin, I don't think your guy is going to remove 64 3" hex tiles, which were grouted with epoxy, without hurting a bunch of others. So, hope for the best but assume the worst. And without almost intimate knowledge of how the waterproofing was done it's almost anyone's guess if the water proofing will be hurt in the process.

Was the epoxy grout used at the hex to wall tile joints?
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Unread 04-13-2021, 05:25 PM   #67
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I agree with Dan, those tiles aren't going to just pop out. It's going to take some time and 64 could turn into 74 or 84. It would probably be faster to remove the whole floor and start over.

A closer picture of the lippage might give us a better idea of how bad it is. You have to keep in mind that the shower floor isn't flat, it's shaped kinda like a funnel. So, a little lippage can be expected.

There's no way to know if he'll damage the hot mop. If he's slow and careful, he won't hurt it, if he's not, he'll destroy it.
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Unread 04-14-2021, 10:23 PM   #68
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Thanks for the advice. This forum is a godsend for your random homeowner. I talked to a local tile guy and says that once you start pounding/chipping on the tile to remove individual tiles, since they used dry pack, you could also end up causing a tear in the hot mop without knowing it because the disruption could transmit into the hop mop, which can tear/rip/crack? He said if they had put wet pack as mortar, you wouldn't have had this risk. I didn't quite follow.

Yes, the wall tile joints are also with epoxy grout. I attached some pics with a nickel against several of the worst hexagons. I think a nickel is just a hair less than 1/16" thick.

Also, difficult would it be to tear up the shower floor without damaging the hotmop pan, walls, glass and curb? Can you tear it up without having to redo the whole mortar bed or would it be best to remove the mortar bed too?
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Unread 04-15-2021, 06:48 AM   #69
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I would say tile over it, that is assuming the build up won't be a issue and if you can find something to extend your drain.
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Unread 04-15-2021, 11:00 AM   #70
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I did think about just tiling over, but the shower curb is so low, I don't think that will be possible. There is barely an inch height of wall at the curb corner, plus another layer of tile will raise the drain to under 2" from the top of the curb, in violation of code. The shower needs to pass inspection still..
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Unread 04-15-2021, 06:32 PM   #71
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Hi Kevin, there's a couple reasons why dry pack mud is used for shower floors. Dry pack is easy to form to the desired pitch and slope and it's also porous so water easily falls thru it on it's way to the weep holes. A wet mix wouldn't be as porous and can cause problems. Whoever told you that a wet mix would have been better doesn't seem to know how the system works. Wet mud isn't to be used on shower floors, especially on a traditional pan liner system.

Also, although dry pack isn't a hard dense concrete, it does get plenty strong for the job at hand. Being a weak mix, it will easily break up and when removing tiles, the mud will likely break within itself. In other words, if real dry pack was used, the bottom side of the tiles would likely have thinset and some dry pack on the bottom sides.

Removing the tiles would have to be done with a hammer and small chisel. A slow process with light blows with the hammer to carefully remove the tiles. The epoxy grout just makes the job harder and slower so you don't want anyone to be in a hurry.
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Unread 04-15-2021, 07:45 PM   #72
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Thanks. The explanation is appreciated.
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Unread 04-15-2021, 09:17 PM   #73
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In a conventional shower build it is critical that the mudbed above the liner be porous. The waterproofing is the liner, not the tile nor the grout. SOme, not much, moisture will get beneath, and to keep it from accumulating, you want it to easily flow down through the mud bed, to the sloped liner, and out the weepholes. Anything that slows that down means the shower will remain damp longer, which promotes mold, efflorescence, and on some tile, cause them to change color as they get saturated. The majority of the water flows down the surface to the drain, but a small amount seeps beneath the tile, and that must flow, too. On a surface applied membrane, because things tend to be denser, it doesn't penetrate as much, and it dries to the surface, assuming your slope is proper, and you get some ventilation.
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