Pay Respect to the Working Men That Suffered to Give Us Workers Rights This Weekend

[dl]

Greg, just to plug another OR company, Danner Boots were also pretty good but it's not clear anymore if they're all made in the USA.

Wesco's have attained nearly a cult status on the west coast. I think it all started with the Whole Earth Catalog back in to 60's. That's where I first learned about them and I drove all the way to Astoria (from LA) to get a pair. Well not quite since I was headed to Alaska anyway.

Wesco's were personally selected by Arnold for Terminator to wear. Leonardo DiCaprio wore Westco's in Aviator. P'Diddy wears Wesco's. New Wesco's are gorgeous - they've appeared on Paris and NY fashion runways. We used to reserve new Wesco's for Saturday nights out breaking them in on the dance floor. My first wife and I got married wearing our Wesco Jobmasters!

Aside from all the hype, Wesco's are just extremely well made and last seemingly forever if you take care of them. And Wesco will even rebuild them for a reasonable fee.

- DL

[Rd Tile]

I don't have monday off.

I do, and with pay.

Won't comment on MHIs remarks, but that also applies to all big business and politicians, not just unions, and they have cleaned up ours to a large extent, guess I did comment, a little anyway.

My annuity is watched by the government and guaranteed to be there when I retire, so I have nothing to worry about right, ha, I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[Scooter]

Wesco Boots and Shoes:

http://www.westcoastshoe.com/

American Made.

[Beaux]

Rich what union you ass. with. I'm workin for a retired union pres. real cool guy.

[Brian in San Diego]

Like RD I am union and proud of it. I am a retired union pipefitter in the United Association of Plumbers and Pipefitters. I worked in the union for 25 years and receive a pension and full medical, dental and vision for which I have to contribute $325/mo. Had I worked longer that amount would have been greatly reduced. I got out at age 56. I worked for two non-union companies prior to getting into the union (one for 5 years) and I don't get squat from either. The one I had 5 years with was one of the Big 3 national A/C companies and our division was hugely profitable, so they could have afforded a little something for the guys that busted their butts to make those profits. We even had an organizing drive which was defeated. Not long after I left and within 3 years I was grandfathered into the union as a journeyman.

Contrary to what Bri said, dues are not invested. Dues are to used to pay for the expenses of keeping the doors of the union hall open as well as paying the salaries of business agents, officers, etc. The union invests the money put into the pension fund by the employer in my behalf. I worked for another of the Big 3 manufacturers as a union employee for the better part of the 25 years. My pension was funded by that employer. My dues have nothing to do with the pension. My health benefits were also funded by the employer. I was in the service business and that business was very profitable. A big company with big overhead and for the most part our entire service department was union nationwide. I agree with RD, if you're going to work for wages, you are way better off to work union.

Brian

[dl]

My observations are strictly related to my 8 years as a truck driver - first 4 non-union, last 4 union (Teamsters). I agree that if you're going to make a career out of it you're probably better off union, but the really important factor is how good is the company and how do they treat their employees. There's good and bad regardless of being union shops or not.

For many drivers (including myself obviously), it's not a career choice but simply a way of earning a living for a while. In that case without consideration for the long term pension etc., I found that I could make better money (sometimes much better) and drive better equipment working non-union, and generally have more interesting and varied work also.

Specifically I worked both union and non-union as a mixer driver. I actually took an hourly pay cut when I switched to the union shop. Both had health benefits and overtime.

Union almost never got overtime. They kept excess drivers and staggered start times to avoid this, and this meant that new hires were lucky to even get 40 hours during the busy season, and would sometimes go several months in the winter with no work or health benefits at all.

Non-union ran thin on drivers which meant that busy season was often 60 hours (or more if we poured Saturday), 1.5x after 40, 2x after 60. But when the slow season hit the owner guaranteed us 20 hours per week. If there were no pours and no tankers to be driven he'd have us assist the diesel mechanics rebuilding trucks. I easily made twice as much on an annual basis at the non-union shop.

So it's not just a union or not question, you've got to examine the practices of the particular company.

Just another observation as to how some unions killed themselves. When I was over-the-road I sometimes hauled steel out of the Fontana CA steel mill. The union crew there took 6 guys half a day to load a truck with steel plate or rolls. They never did more than one truck before lunch and one after. They spent the rest of the time sitting in the coffee room. The non-union crew at the destination could unload the same truck in 10 minutes or less with two guys. And you wonder why the steel industry died here.

- DL

[Bri]

Hey, did you notice how nicely Brian told me I didn't know what I was talking about?

[Rd Tile]

Beaux, Teamsters Local 282 New York.

Thought you called me an Ass.

[dl]

Speaking of pensions, my employer paid into the Teamster's pension fund on my behalf for four years but when I quit I forfeited everything because I wasn't "vested" (5 years). I've had pension plans at several non-union jobs and invariably when I quit I got a cash-out payment of at least the money that had been paid in.

- DL

[Beaux]

LOL yea just reread the post. Wasn't calling you a ass Rich. Sorry bout the typo.

[MudMaker]

Got nothin nice to say about Unions these days..
Unions drive the cost of doin biness up forcing companies to manufacture or cut corners, and build elsewhere...
Best thing you can do when you go to purchase something... Car, tool, thingamabob... Ask to get the best built, best constructed, best materials used... and don't look for the cheapest thing you can buy.. The consumer is driving the economy... Force companies to build better not cheaper...
Right now people want the cheapest items they can buy, forcing companies to cut cut costs, manufacture stuff that's "Just acceptable", find new and cheaper materials to use..
When you shop for stuff, do you care what it cost's?? Bet you try to get the Best Price around... Companies see this.. They have to, to survive...
Why? because that's what the public wants....

The company I worked for is moving all of their equipment to Mexico.. Why? they can't compete in the automotive market making shock absorbers and selling them for $20 a pair to O.E.M.'s, and paying a janitor $120,000/yr.

[Brian in San Diego]

Frank,

There are no doubt many ways to look at union trained people and I guess a lot of it may have to do with the industry they are working in. Like dl said about the union workers that loaded the trucks in Fontana. Sounds like incorrect philosophy was used there. Although my union card said I was a pipefitter in actuality I was a factory service mechanic doing start up, service and repair of industrial chillers. I can't tell you how many times I went on goverment contract jobs (you know, low bid gets the job whether they are qualified or not) to do start-ups and couldn't start my work because the contractor hadn't done some portion of their job properly or they had actually damaged the equipment because they were untrained. In my industry, the "do it right the first time" motto seemed to prevail and the unions were big on training and certifying the members to do their jobs correctly. Their was peer oversight to make sure the jobs were done correctly and in a timely manner. Union or not, the company has to make a profit. And in our town there was plenty of non-union competition, so the union companies had to be competetive with their bidding as well as provide a superior product.

Don talked about getting better wages from a non-union employer and I don't doubt it. There was a study done at Harvard University many years ago and the conclusion of the study was that non-union employees have benefited from the bargaining that the unions have done in behalf of their members. In other words, if there were no unions everybody working for a wage would be making far less.

Just don't think you can broadly paint all unions as bad or good. I believe they have their place in our society and in the case of my union provide excellent training for a person who wants to learn a trade. I was just reading in the paper the other day about the wave of retirement thinning the ranks of skilled workers. A person can make a very good living in a blue collar job and I believe the best training overall is provided by the labor unions.

Brian

[Rd Tile]

Frank, so unions caused all those problems?

[Brian in San Diego]

BTW Frank, where is that company located? I want to apply for the janitor job.

[Dave Taylor]

Quit a-pickin' on Frank guys.

I use to feel zactly’ like he did.... the onliest' good union was a dead union.... an' I came by it naturally. My dad hated unions fer’ lotsa' good reasons….. so.... so did I. Hell.... I hated em' worse when they started dippin’ in my pocket fer' sumpin‘ called "fair share"...that's where one pays union dues… member or not. I was hot.... a self made man I was,,,, didn't need no stinkin' union I did….. till.... till...... sumpin' at work with management made life miserable. Not just fer' me... but fer' all my good co-workers too.

We took the problem to all channels possible.... in spades.... till we were finally given four options…. no BS:

Put up with the situation and shut up.

Keep workin' and keep puttin’ in fer’ sick leave caused by the issue….. Which was slowly killin' each of us.... and shut up.

Quit and leave.

Or.... find someone external to champion our [lost] cause.

That's when I remembered I was no union member.... but I was a-payin' "fair share"

I contacted the union and...... they sent a rep to investigate and..... what he found made him stay and fight..... Fer’ a buncha' non-union members.... and he won…. and we won….... big time.

I and others were flabbergasted, pleased, and overjoyed….. we could now work in harmony without fear.

The offending management issues were removed and archived…. forever.

Damn justice was done!

Thanks.... ASCME/professional...... yer' great.

Ten people’s friggin’ devotion to company and duty got them nuttin’ but gas….. till your intervention.