Pay Respect to the Working Men That Suffered to Give Us Workers Rights This Weekend

[Scooter]

This weekend is labor day.

Not so long ago, children under the age of 16 toiled in dirty manfacturing plants for little money.

Not so long ago, 12 hour work days and 6 days work weeks were forced on workers.

Not so long ago, workers were compelled to rent from company owned apartments or homes and buy groceries from company owned stores.

Not so long ago, there was no vacation, no sick time, no health insurance.

The Labor Union movement, sweat, died, got beat up, and some killed for what we consider basic human rights:

8 hour work day
40 hour work week
Overtime
Vactation
Health Insurance.

So while you are enjoying your day off Monday, remember who gave you that day off--Union Worker in America.

[ddmoit]

Well, that's one theory.

Give thanks to unfettered capitalism that encouraged productivity through competition and the amassing of capital. It is this productivity which has provided leisure time and discretionary spending.

If you're not sure about this, imagine for a second if workers in third world countries were suddenly granted the right to a 40 hour work week with all other other frills. Without the productivity advances of capitalism, they would quickly starve.

[Scooter]

So your theory is that if the 10 year old child workers just worked harder, ate less, breathed more polluted air, and not complained about poor working conditions, their bosses would be so benevolent as to suddently give them an 8 hour day, 40 hour week, paid vacation, and health insurance? Thats a good one.

Everything that you take for granted in your job, was part of a Labor Union Strike in the 20's to 50's, and was bargained for with sweat, loss of pay, broken bones and in some cases (here in Long Beach) the deaths of workers at the hands of their benevolent employers who actually killed them.

One legitimate point of view is that due to the successes of the labor unions and labor movement, they are no longer necessary. But to suggest that they did nothing to advance worker rights is just plain not factual.

Dan, you need to read some history--not theory. I can suggest some good books. I am here to help.

[Dave Taylor]

Dan.... Scoter I unnerstan' (I know, I know, will wonders never cease) :---)

Your logic kinda' left me high-n-dry though.

[ddmoit]

Scooter, I have read plenty of history. Unfortunately, most history text books are also filled with unreasoned analysis of historical facts.

It's an established fact that children did work in deplorable (especially by today's standards) conditions in this country at one time. It's also an established fact that things are much better now. But, history in no way whatsoever establishes that the labor movement is the reason that child labor disappeared. Correlation? Yes. Causal relation? No. In fact, a closer examination of history shows that child labor was disappearing long before any legislation against it appeared.

As you are aware, there are places in the world today where deplorable child labor exists. But, no amount of legislation could improve the lot of those children. Usually when parents allow their children to work, it is because their family's survival depends on it. Such was the case in the early history of our country. The alternative to child labor was starvation, or an even more dangerous rural farm job.

It is only through productivity gains made possible by the division of labor and capitalization that a civilization becomes wealthier. It is then that things like child labor and 80 hour work weeks become unacceptable compared to available alternatives.

Capitalism allows men with shovels to become men with back-hoes.

[flatfloor]

Scooter said Not so long ago, children under the age of 16 toiled in dirty manufacturing plants for little money

Kept the little buggers off the streets didn't it?

Dan, you continue to amaze me.

[Scooter]

You can never prove a cause and effect to satisfaction of one that disagrees with it.

I can only say the following facts which are undisputed:

Labor Unions were formed to improve worker conditions.

Labor Unions went on strike to improve worker conditionos.

Many Union members were beat up and some killed in vicious strikes in the early 20th Century by manufacturers who did not want to pay workers overtime or improve conditions

The Labor Unions and Manufacturer's Management reached deals (I won't characterize it as one side "won" or "lost") which reduced weekly hours, paid workers overtime, gave them vacation time, and improved working conditions.

Whether or not you agree that this was the cutting edge of the workers rights movement, or they were, as you theorize, behind the curve, I can not say. I think it is undisputed that these Labor Unions fought for improved conditions with manufacturers which resisted it, and conditions ultimately improved.

I realize the Libertarian point of view is that a manufacturer should have no legal restraints from hiring anyone, including kids, illegal alliens, no safety laws, no overtime, no vacation, no health insurance, no holidays. Just let the capitalists do whatever they want unfettered by ANY government or Union regulation and let the marketplace do whatever they want.

I also know that you believe in open borders and letting millions of illegal alliens flood our workplaces driving down salaries for the rest of us. I know this because you've said it before, Dan.

So for you to opine as to worker rights and safety and improved worker pay and conditions when you advocate unfettered illegal immigration, is, I might say, dis-ingenuine.

[ddmoit]

Scooter, you have grossly misrepresented my position on immigration. For anyone interested in my actual position, suffice it to say that I agree largely with what Hans-Hermann Hoppe writes here: http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/hermann-hoppe3.html

(If you're looking for something sound-bite simple, you should probably skip it.)

[dl]

Fact is that as long as there is a surplus of labor (and there is on a world-wide basis), market conditions will never drive towards safer, fairer, better compensated and more humanitarian working conditions - exactly the opposite in that jobs will migrate to where laws and regulations are more permissive of abuse and exploitation.

There are exceptions of course such as talented high-tech where the shortage of talent leads to improving conditions for the worker.

- DL

[kate42]

Unions had their place in society and did do some good things for the working man. Like many other organizations, they got too fat and in many cases were more concerned with their bottom-line than the working man. My father worked for a company that could no longer meet the demands of the union and closed their doors. This was a small family business. This left my father with 8 mouths to feed and the oldest only 15 (me) without a job. I don’t have to tell you how tough this was on my family and how hard it was for us to survive as a family. It is something I have never forgotten.

[Scooter]

Kathleen's well reasoned comment typiflies the argument against Unions today. I don't agree necessarily with it, but do understand it.

Unions still have a place in many industries when management tries to take something away from the worker, like health insurance. I pitty our non-union grocerty store employees like Walmart that have to apply for welfare to get medical coverage. The high cost of low prices.

I also agree with DL that manufacturing will gravitate to those countries with the laxest labor laws, laxest pollution laws, no child labor laws, and no human rights. If a shoe company can use slave labor to produce the show $5 cheaper, then you can bet your bippy that the country that allows that to go on, will get the business and take it away from Americans. We as Americans would rather pay $5 less for a pair of shoes than have a couple hundred Americans gainfully employed. It makes me sick.

Can you name the only shoe company that still manufacturers in the US?

China is at our middle stage of the Industrial Revolution now, and when we were there, we saw a lot of country people suffering with polluted water (unable to fish to feed their family), polluted air, and terrible working conditions. Human nature will force the workers to rebel or turn into slaves. I do not understand how a communist nation built on worker rights could be turned upside down. But I would expect Unionization of some form from China in the near future.

And Dan, you expressed your opinion before that there should be no constraints on immigration whatsoever. Let the market forces rule. I happen to believe in a wall, Claymore Mines, and mandatory jail terms for employers which employe these guys. We are losing our culture.

If you've changed your mind or you can't explain it to us in plain English, I'm not gonna click on any link.

The bottom line is that we, as a Nation this weekend need to pay respect to the American working person who fought for the 40 hour week, vacations, overtime and other things which did not exist before, by giving that American worker a day off--Labor Day. Honoring American working men and women.

[MHI]

"Can you name the only shoe company that still manufacturers in the US?"

I will bet that there are more than one, but are you thinking Red Wing?

Converse Chuck Taylor's are made in the USA, as well as some hand made mocassins from the indian reservations.

[Jeremy]

New Balance, and I cant believe I agree with everything said in that post.

[Scooter]

Correcto--New Balance.

Buy American.

[Bri]

Then why do the New Balance I'm wearing right now say "made in china" on the label?