shower ceiling and shower floor questions

[Martin1065]

What a great site, thanks.
I have a steam shower almost done, We placed a stainless steel pan on the floor that comes 4 inches up the walls. The backerboard over hanges about 1 inch into the pan. The drain is in the middle. We used the quick pitch system which is the plastic strips that run from the walls to the drain. A mortor was applied in the pan and is now harden, so we have a rough floor that is slightly pitched.

I have 2"x2" mosaic tile on 1'x2' sheets. Now the questions.
Like I said the mortor is very rough with little nooks and cranies. What can I use to smooth it out and still keep a pitch, and bonds with the mortor? How exactally do I bond the sheets of tile to the floor? What is the best product? Is flexibond good? Do I just smear flexibond to the floor and lay the sheets into the flexibond and wipe out the grout lines?

Thanks for all you help, Martin

[Davestone]

Martin, i can't help but ask how you did this steam room...what you used for wallboard...what kind of pitch on the ceiling,what kind of waterproofing,what kind of thinset?Anyway, you can always use modified thinset on the shoewr pan, and you can skim some wet thinset over the bumpy mudwork to flatten it the day before you plan to set the tile.Be sure to use a smaller notch so not too much thinset oozes through the tiles.

[cx]

Martin, is this the same steam shower that was previously tiled using no waterproofing membrane and mastic to set all the tile?

Did everything get torn out?

I gotta assume there is no pre-slope under your stainless steel pan, correct?

How did you deal with the part of the stainless pan that is above the mud floor and below the wallboard?

The mud floor is generally placed such that it is suitable for tiling directly over it without any further preparation. If you have small imperfections in the surface of the mud, you can usually just fill them with thinset, either as you tile or skim the whole thing and let it set up before you begin tiling.

I don't know that you need anything as exotic as flexBond, but I think it will work in that application. I've not used it.

How are you planning to waterproof/vaporproof the shower this time?

Did you follow all the recommended steps for steam shower construction on this try? Are you doing it yourownself this time?

I can bring your other thread over here if it's the same shower so people can see what you suffered through the first time.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[Martin1065]

Yes, this is the same steam shower that I posted earlier saying it was done with mastic. I called my tile guy and had him meet me at the house and confronted him on using mastic in my shower. Now remember, I am not a tile person and I only saw him scooping stuff out of the Acryl Pro bucket while doing my steam shower(as well as everywhere else in my house).
He insured me and said he would never use mastic in a shower or on floors, He said he only used the Acryl Pro bucket to mix his mortor. He showed me a bag of stone and marble mortor in a white and greenish blue bag that he used for the shower and floors. He also had me try and pull a piece of tile loose, which I was unable too. What a relief.
How the steam shower was built. A stainless steal pan was placed on the plywood floor custom made to fit up against the 2x6 walls tight, going 4 inches up the walls. Nothing was put under the pan. The pan was not sloped. The walls were insulated with R-38 or 30. A 1/4 inch strip of wood was placed on each 2x6 down to the pan. 1/2 inch Backerboard was then glued with liquid nails and screwed to the walls overhanging into the pan due to the wood strips on the 2x6's. No membrane was put under the backerboard. All the backerboard seems were taped with a fiberglass mesh tape and red guard was applied over the tape. Not all of the backerboard was treated with red guard. The ceiling is only 1/4 inch backerboard and is not sloped. The walls and ceiling are covered with 6x6 Porcelin glazed tiles with sanded grout. The ceiling is not grouted yet, so I plan on applying the spectra-losk grout, I will use that for the floor also.
If the shower is not waterproof or vaporproof is it too late? Can I remove all the grout and apply Spectra-loock everywhere?

Thanks, Martin

Martin

The partial application of RedGard will not vaporproof or water proof your shower. I would not count on the Spectralock to solve the problems with this steam room.

I am curious if you flood tested the stainless steel pan? The reason I ask is that 2 years ago we were hired to redo all 5 pans in a house that originally has SS pans, and all 5 leaked. The connections to the drain and the soldered corners all had problems.

The TCA Handbook Standards for steam showers are very good. Here is the backerboard standard: SR614-05. You can order one via literature@tileusa.com.

[Martin1065]

If I removed all the grout and put in Spectra-lock would that help? Is there a really good sealent that can be applied over the grout and tile? If I was to remove the regular grout, is there a special tool to scrap it out. I would imagine a metal tool shaped like a small arrowhead that you could scrape with would be great.
Remember this steam unit will not be used a lot.

Thanks, Martin

Hi Martin,

Spectralock would probably be better than a standard cement grout, but it isn't the solution to your problem. The steam room should have been built differently, and that is that. The problem is that if something is leaking moisture or vapor you won't know about it for a long time. The insulation and framing will continue to absorb and you won't be able to detect it initially.

Did you flood test your shower pan?

[Martin1065]

The walls to my steam shower are done with 6x6 percelain tile. Behind the tile on the walls is red guard on top of backerboard.

The floor is a stainless steel pan coming up 4 inches on the wall. The backerboard and tile hang 2 inches down into the steel pan. Mortar was poured into the steel pan weeks ago. I need to make the floor about 1 to 1 1/2 inch higher and add 2x2 tiles. What is good to use that will bond to the mortar hat is already hard on the floor? Would Flexibond work? If so, I can put down additional flexibond and just put my sheets of tile on top of it.
Also what can I add to my flexibond to hold the ceiling tiles to the ceiling so they wont fall on me? The ceiling tiles are also 6x6

Thanks, Martin

[koihito]

If you need to come up 1 1/2 " you need to add floor mud (check the Liberry) before you tile with Flexbond and 2x2s. If you try to float out a sheet of 2x2s with thinset it will ooze out the joint and make a massive and very uneven mess.

As for the ceiling, add nothing, it will stick just fine. I've put up many 12x12, 16x16, and even 18x18 with nothing more than modified thinset (like Flexbond)

[John Bridge]

Martin,

Use deck mud, but bond it to the old mud with thin set. Smear the thin set just before dumping the mud and cover it with mud quickly to keep it from drying out.

[Martin1065]

What is deck mud? Where do I get it? Do I mix it a special way? Is it easy to pitch? Does the 2x2 tile sit directly on the deck mud? Do I lay it on the deck mud while it is still wet, or do I put down some thin set, the deck mud ontop, pitch it, let it dry, and then lay the floor tile with another product on the dry deck mud?

Thank you in advance, Martin

[cx]

Martin, I combined this with one of your other threads on this shower so folks can keep up with the history in answering your questions (I left out the thread about how it all started). Please keep all your questions about the project here.

You can find information on deck mud in the Shower Construction thread in our Liberry. JB has even added an article showing exactly how it should be mixed.

Did you do anything about the rest of the construction of the shower, or you just gonna see how long it will last the way it is?

My opinion; worth price charged.