Newbie starting 2 Projects

[Tara2]

I've been reading this forum for 3 weeks, have gone to a few retailers, and have done enough reading/research to have become very confused. I have a tight budget, and am willing to do some work myself to help cut costs.

Project 1: I have a 4'X5' (20 sq ft) 1/2 bath which desperately needs to be updated. This is the only bath on the 1st floor, and it is the most heavily used bathroom in the house (family of 4 in 40 year old NJ home). I want a tiled floor (I'm leaning toward 4X4 tiles set on the diagonal), and have selected a pedestal sink and TOTO toilet (my house has a well & septic, so water pressure is poor).
Q1: What is the true definition of "rough in"? I've found contradictory definitions: a. the distance from the wall to the floor bolts; and b. the distance from the wall to the center of the trap.
Q2: If some TOTO toilets have wider traps, do I have to remove the existing toilet to see if this wider trap design will fit the existing trap?
Q3: The existing floor has old, small rectangular tiles which I feel confident are sound enough to be tiled over. There is a 1/2" marble threshold to a ceramic tile floor hallway. I am overwhelmed with the choices in tiles, and would love to "match" (in appearance only) the fieldstone(?) flooring of my front foyer (other side of the house). I want to go middle to high end quality with the tile. I don't know howto narrow my search between porcelain, stone, or ceramic. Any insights to what I should consider before making my decision?

Project 2: I plan to upgrade the kid's (and guest) bathroom by replacing the vanity countertop and the fixtures. The vanity countertop is 94"X22" with two 18 1/2" diameter sinks each set 27 3/4" from the side walls. I want the coved 4" backsplash, but do not need side splashes or edges. I like the ease of cleaning of the continuous, one-piece design of the sink & countertop. I'm considering different countertop materials, and pretty much have decided against marble due to maintenance and staining potential. Soapstone seems way out of my price range, and I was ready to order the Stonehouse product from Lowes when I was told that they will not install in pre-existing cabinets. Q4: What material would you recommend for this countertop, and what are some of the potential nightmares of installing this top myself?
Q5: I would like to keep the total cost for this project (including installation) no more than $1100. Is this reasonable/doable?

Any inputs would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Mike2]

Hi Tara, welcome. Glad you joined us.

I'll try to help with the first three questions:

Rough-in is from the finished wall to the center of the "trap" using your words, or perhaps we could also say the opening of the toilet drain.

Toto's will fit a standard 3" or 4" drain. Is that what you have?

I'm going to give you a link to the Daltile website. Here you will be able to select a room, Bathroom in your case. Then the type of tile Ceramic, then application Floor, then color scheme of interest. The results returned will most likely be a number of pages of different tile type. Daltile Design Planner

I am positive you will find some closely matching your fieldstone foyer. The various sizes these tiles come in will can also be found by viewing the Entire Series.

Note that 4" tiles are going to be harder to find that 6" so you may want to consider that size as an option.

Happy exploring.

[Tara2]

Thank you for the prompt reply.

I can now measure a correct rough in distance. It seems as though I need to remove the old toilet in order to get accurate measurements for both the rough-in and drain opening size. The old toilet is an American Standard, and I don't know whether it has a 3" or 4" drain opening. I imagine that it is a standard size, however, I'll remove the tank to get the correct measurements first. Is there any shortcut that enables a person to measure these items without first removing the old toilet?

Thanks for the link. I'll go there directly!
Tara

[Eastrick]

Tara-

You can measure the rough-in distance by measuring from the finished wall out to the bolts (called "closet bolts") that mount the old toilet to the flange/floor. They stick up through the base and may or may not have a plastic cap over them to pretty them up. No need to remove the toilet to make this measurement.

[Tara2]

OK, so now I've got both answers in two replies. Does this mean that the bolt that attaches the toilet to the floor is located at exactly the midpoint of the drain? If not, then you guys are giving me the same two answers that prompted my question. I would like to order my Toto online (& save $$), but I need to get my numbers right, first.

BTW, Mike: Thanks for the link to Daltile. I'm heading right over to a showroom (real, not virtual) where I can see my pick first-hand! I will certainly go with the 6" tile size, and get the bullnose tiles for the baseboard. Thanks!

Tara.

[Eastrick]

Does this mean that the bolt that attaches the toilet to the floor is located at exactly the midpoint of the drain?

Yes, the closet bolts are located on the centerline of the toilet flange. There is obviously some clearances in the flange and toilet holes that the bolts go through, so I'd say the measurement will give you the toilet rough-in distance within a quarter-inch or so.

Also, I'm no pro, but I've never seen anything other than a 3" or 4" toilet flange. If your current toilet is an Amrican Standard, I'd bet my bottom dollar that your new Toto will fit just fine with whatever flange is currently there.

-CJ

[Tara2]

So now that I know I have a 12" Rough in, I tried to order my throne of choice only to find that it is back ordered! Back to the drawing board, I guess. Are there any words of wisdom to recommend against ordering a pedestal sink & toilet online?

[muskymike]

Originally Posted by Tara2

Are there any words of wisdom to recommend against ordering a pedestal sink & toilet online?

How bout when it comes in thousands of pieces!

[vernal888]

Hello Tara:

Ordered a Toto toilet, Whitehaus kitchen sink, and Kohler bathroom sink all on line. Great service, competitive prices, no problems.

[Tara2]

I've taken the plunge! I've ordered the pedestal sink online - and I'll let you know the precise number of pieces that get delivered to my doorstep. As for the Toto toilet, it looks like the best deal at this time is at a local retailer who is running a 10% sale - this basically means the softclose toilet seat is free! The shipping rates at several websites have put the cost over the local retailers.

I've narrowed down my search for the holy tile! There are many local dealers and sooo many options, but I'll post what I pick when that decision is made.

I'm currently awaiting a quote for the 94"X22" vanity counter top. Another local dealer is working up numbers with & without installation charges. I have decided against the cultured marble or granite top in favor of silestone, corian or stonehouse (Lowe's 2nd highest quality brand). It is now a numbers game. How difficult is it to DIY? My husband is "handyman challenged", so it is all up to me! The size of this vanity top alone intimidates me! My plumber will install the fixtures, I just need to get the vanity top installed somehow. I'll keep on posting.

Thanks for all the help. The liberry is very informative, and I've been enjoying many of the political and technical mud-slinging (pun intended)! Thanks to all!

[Tara2]

FYI: Pedestal & Sink arrived on time and in 1 piece.

I've selected a Silestone countertop for the kid's bath countertop, and I'm researching faucets, now. I would like to replace the bath's old faucet, handles & shower head to match the lavatory faucets I choose. And here's the catch. The bath's old fixtures are configured with a tub faucet, shower head and three handles: one each for hot & cold water, and a middle handle to direct the water to the tub faucet or shower head. All new fixtures appear to have a single, round, lever-style handle to control the water temp without separate handles. Since I want to keep the original tile, I'm concerned about finding a match - one with three handles. Is this impossible? Can anyone recommend a resource to try to find something to fit this old arrangement? Or, can anyone enlighten me to other options?

Thanks.

[LazyPup]

I am a Master Plumber so perhaps I can verify some of the information for you,

In the plumbing trade a toilet is properly called a "Water Closet" therefore the mounting ring on the drain line is called a "Closet Flange"

Closet flanges are made to fit on a 3" or 4" drain line, but the water closet (toilet) will fit either one equally well.

The standard "SetBack" is 12" measured from the centerline of the closet flange to the finished wall.

The water closet mount bolts are positioned on the centerline of the water closet flange, therefore you can measure the setback from the mount bolt to the wall without removing the water closet.

There are specialty water closets that are made with a 10" or 14" setback.

When properly installed the bottom surface of the water closet flange should be flush with the finished floor, which will leave the top surface about 1/4 to 3/8" above the finished floor level.

The plumbing code prohibits the top of the water closet flange from being flush with or recessed below the finished floor level. Often when installing a tile floor the finished floor will now be higher than the top surface of the water closet flange. If so, you can get a "Buildup flange" which is simply a flat plate made in the same shape as the water closet flange and which is installed directly on top of the existing flange to build up the height.

Also, a word of caution, In order to tile your floor you will need to remove the existing water closet until the tile is laid. After you remove the water closet stuff the top of the drain line with a big wad of rags to prevent any debris from falling down the drain line while your working. You can then easily pull the rags out before setting your new water closet and you won't have problems wth clogged drain lines.

[John Bridge]

Richard,

We have an opening for "official plumber" of the forums. You intereste? Pay is really not that good, but I think I can offer a couple weeks of unpaid vacation to start out.

[Tara2]

Okay, so my powder room's items (sink, toilet, faucet & ceramic tile) have all been ordered, and I'm awaiting the installer to do the work. The fear of cutting the 6" tile on a diagonal has me shying away from DImyself!

For my second project, I've ordered a 94" Caesarstone vanity counter top with 2 undermount sinks, and I'm researching faucet options. Does anyone have any experience with Rubbed-Oil Brass finish? Many of the online stores do not specify if the faucets have a PVD surface or not. How important is this for the durability of the faucet's luster. Does anyone have any experience in this? Is anyone familiar with the Kingston brand faucet? I'm only familiar with the most common Kohler, Moen, Delta brands, and I'm concerned about purchasing an unknown brand (at least to me).

Thanks for all the previous information. This forum has really helped guide me in my shopping and the endless options!

[Tara2]

Oops, I meant an Oil-Rubbed Bronze finish. Duh!