Shower from the 60's

[HooKooDoo Ku]

Thanks for the feedback CX.

My thinking is that the front of my curb is already tiled. I don't want to destroy that tile if I want it to match the existing walls.

So I do the equivalent of building a curb with Schudler Kerdi-board SC Curb so that the front of my curb is already water proof.

But the existing curb isn't flat like the Schuder curb. So I want to fill the void between the old and new curb so that none of the old curb crumbles from being stepped on.

What If I Remove the Old Tile
How do I handle the transition from old green tile in bathroom to white tile in shower?
These two images show where I'm at today (except wood behind curb is removed):

I currently have a flat "line" for a transition that includes dark green boarder tile down the left side of the shower and across the front of the curb, but then I've got whole 4x4 light green tile going up the right side. The edge of the dark green tile on the curb lines up with the whole 4x4 tile on the right wall.

I've already got "permission" to just instantly transition from 4x4 light green tile to 4x4 while tile (however, I'll have to find a way to deal with the fact the white tile on the right wall will be recessed from the light green 4x4 tile on the right wall.

So a bit of my issues if I start the curb over is how to deal with what is going on in the red circle in the bottom right.

[Davy]

I've been following your thread and pretty much explained what I would do in post 56. I was waiting to see if anyone else had any ideas. Like Cx said, what you're trying to do is risky. To me, having a water tight shower is more important than having matching tiles. The waterproofing needs to go to the outside edge of the curb and jamb.

[cx]

I understand your aesthetic considerations, Joseph, and I understand that the aesthetics are important, 'specially when you must live with the customer after the work is complete, but in shower construction, I think aesthetics must take a backseat to waterproofing considerations. Without being there with you I certainly can't say your plans for that won't work, but I'm saying that from over here I see a problem with it. Maybe it's not a problem and maybe you can make it work. I'm just playing devil's advocate on accounta the devil and water work constantly together to cause problems for shower builders.

[HooKooDoo Ku]

Davy,
Thanks for following along.

I'm trying to think thru what I'm going to do if I follow the collective wisdom of this group and remove the rest of the curb. But I've got SEVERAL things going on at the transition point (not all of which I've described).

Thinner Walls
One issue I'm facing is the fact that the old walls were about a 1" thick layer of mud. The new wall will be 1/2" drywall.

Left Side
I think I know what to do with the left side:
1. Remove the dark green bullnose.
2. Install drywall.
3. Grind light green wall tile so their right edge is flush with drywall
4. Use White Bullnose to replace dark green bullnose that was removed.

Curb Face
Rebuild the curb using white tile to substitute for all the old light and dark green tile. The one issue will be getting the final face of the new white tile to be in line with the old green wall tile on the left.

Right Side
I've got multiple issues here.
1. Again, the old wall was 1" thick, new wall will be 1/2" thick.
So the tile inside the shower will be recessed from the bathroom wall tile.
What do I do at the corner of this transition.
I guess to try to answer my own question, I believe I've seen seen 1/4 round trim pieces. Once the drywall is in place, see how that fits.
2. The original wall is not strait.
Shown below is a diagram of the right wall. It shows how the existing stud is not located at the shower/bathroom edge. So I added a 2x4 with spacer blocks so the existing and new drywall have something to sit on at the edge. In the case of the existing tile, the mud was not smooth on the back and there was not enough space to add a 2x4 behind the mud, so I placed a new 2x4 beside the mud to give a place for the new drywall to attach.

It wasn't until I got these new 2x4s installed until I noticed at the top, the old drywall is sits flush with the new 2x4, but by the time you get down to the old mud and tile, the drywall sits about 1/4" proud of the 2x4.



So I guess this post is a bit more of a "thinking out loud" sort of post rather than asking many questions.

[HooKooDoo Ku]

Copying conversation from another post (no reason to hijack it when I've got this one).

Originally Posted by HooKooDoo Ku

Is there anything wrong with using the kerdi foam pan?

Originally Posted by jadnashua

The foam pan works fine, but the three things that might bite you are:
- the placement of the drain must be exact
- the floor must be level
- if you have to cut the tray to fit, your bottom row won't be the same length on each side unless you cut it symmetrically all around. That isn't a technical problem, but might be an aesthetic one

Doing a mud pan, then Kerdi over it, is much more accommodating as those two things are easy to compensate for.

There is a company that will mill you a custom foam pan to put the drain anywhere if you can wait for that.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, Laticrete Workshop 2014, Custom Building Products Workshop 2015, and Longtime Forum Participant.

[HooKooDoo Ku]

The drain is going to be interesting.

There is a joist going down the center of the shower, and the original drain was way off to one side.

That center joist was starting to rot on the top due to the leak and I've already added a sister joist to span the damage.

My plan is to move that drain as close to that joist as possible, perhaps notching the joist a little to make some room. From a design perspective, I'll figure out how close to the center I can get the drain, then cut the pan to get it there. A pair of 45s will take care of the misalignment between the existing drain and the kerdi drain.

[HooKooDoo Ku]

Progress Report
OMG every little detail is taking f.o.r.e.v.e.r...
(today's work effectively installed three pieces of wood).

The curb came down... and the joists under it were out of plane with the rest of the joists. Gave me an excuse to finally buy a new palm sander so I could sand down the joists all the way to the walls and get everything in plane.

Had very little space to jog the drain geometry to get it as close to the center of the shower as the center joist would allow. Required 22.5º elbows, and one of those had to be a street elbow. 45s were too tall. The elbows are glued, but I've left myself vertical adjustments until I'm ready to install the drain, but I've dry fitted it with the drain spacers to make sure I'm not too high.

Finally got the floor installed (wooden piece 1). Otherwise spent the whole weekend on the drain geometry and getting all the studs in plane and ready for drywall.


I also got the wood installed for a niche (wooden piece 2 and 3). The bottom piece has the needed slope.


Ready to start installing drywall... unless I want to add a block for a grab bar.

[cx]

Originally Posted by Joseph

...unless I want to add a block for a grab bar.

There will never be another good time to do that, Joseph. Usually worth doing, whether you ever install the grab bars or not.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[HooKooDoo Ku]

For installing the grab bar thru kerdi... I assume you drill your piolet holes thru the tile/kerdi/block, then squirt some kerdi fix into the hole before installing the screws?

One issue will be finding the right spot to install a grab bar. If I recall building codes correctly, you're supposed to be able to take a virtual hula-hoop that is 30" in diameter and run it down the center of the shower without hitting anything. So placing it in the center of the right-hand wall seems out. Thinking of installing vertically close to the shower head wall... or perhaps horizontally right up against the shower head wall (but installed on the wall to the right of the shower head wall).

I'll put the blocking for it in... it's just... I thought I was ready to start hanging drywall... but NOPE, yet something else to do first.

[cx]

Always been my understanding that "fixtures" don't count in the hula-hoop test, Joseph. I'd consider the grab-bars to be fixtures. Do look that up before you proceed. Or/and get your code compliance inspector to give you his reading on the matter. That's the one that will actually count.

Originally Posted by Joseph

I thought I was ready to start hanging drywall... but NOPE, yet something else to do first.

Yeah, it's kinda interesting that there's frequently not time for folks to do it right, but always time to do it twice. Just keep plodding along and make sure you'll never hafta do this shower again. Even if you're a really young guy.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[HooKooDoo Ku]

For jurisdictions following the IRC, when measuring a shower's internal "finished" dimensions to meat minimum size requirements, fixture valves, shower heads, soap dishes, and grab bars are excluded.

But in my case, since this shower's finished dimensions are going to be on the order of about 32", I still think I want the grab bar towards a corner to avoid bumping it with your elbow.

[HooKooDoo Ku]

Two hours for a few pieces of wood.
Support for a 9" grab bar (horizontal or vertical) in place, and flush for drywall.

[cx]

Mmmm. 9-inch grab bar seems like just enough to say you put a grab bar, but not enough to grab when you're suddenly falling in the shower, Joseph.

When I block for grab bars in a shower, I generally use the widest 2x material I can find on site or buy if I need to, preferably 2x12, and block around as much of the wall areas as is reasonable. Doesn't need to be pretty. I could generally do all the walls of a medium shower in about half the time you spent there and I could later add bars wherever I, or my customer, might suddenly decide we needed one. Good notes, preferably with photos in this digital age, about where the blocking is located is very helpful years later when the occupants have gotten older and ask if they could add such grab bars.

My opinion; worth price charged.

[HooKooDoo Ku]

This shower is so small that I didn't want a large grab bar. Just a small something tucked in the corner to hold onto if you drop something.
Here's an updated picture to help locate them when I'm ready to install the bar.


Otherwise, by the end of today, I had my drywall up. Still got to cut the hole for the niche and drywall it. Curb is next.
I came across something on a Schluder video that says if you tape your drywall joints, you need to prime it because the thinset doesn't work well with wall mud. I used some spackle to fill a few holes and I wonder if the spackle needs a prime coat before mounting the membrane.

[ss3964spd]

Definitely need to tape and mud those drywall joints, Joseph, unless you're covering the DW with something like Kerdi. If you use hot mud (powdered compound mixed with water) you'd probably not need to prime it, but you still may want to prime the whole thing. Raw drywall will suck a lot of moisture out of the thinset mortar. Or, you could simply dampen the DW prior to combing on the mortar.

If you use premixed compound I'd definitely put a coat of decent primer over the compound.