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Unread 12-05-2006, 09:34 PM   #1
shawneeleelee
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I think I am ready.......

Hello all, I have been following this forum, searching and researching for the last few weeks. I am ready to start. Thought I would do a "Sanity" check.

I am building a new house and am laying around 1000 sq ft of 12" ceramic tile in a mixed beiges color.
Kitchen, dining room, walk in pantry, foyer#1 over 4' crawlspace.
Foyer#2, bathroom #1, bathroom #2 and utility room, over basement.
Through my research I have confirmed I have met the L360 criteria.
I have 3/4" OSB T&G subfloor throughout.
I am placing 1/2" Durock cement board everywhere, using Laticrete 317 thinset mortar, 1/4"x1/4" notched trowel and 1 1/2" galvanized roofing nails.
Taping the joints with fiberglass tape and using modified thin set mortar for that.
Setting the tile with gray Laticrete 253 multipurpose thin set mortar.
Using 1/4" spacers.
Using Laticrete Marble Beige Sanded Grout. (Reason: that is what Lowes carries in stock)

One question: With the Durock, and placing the thin set between the cement board and the OSB, I understand that this thin set is primarily a void filler, not a bonding agent. If this is the case, which side of the Durock should I turn up for the tile, the rough side or the smooth side? Would the Laticrete 253 bond to one side better than the other?

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Big project for a DIY'er, but I am OK with that.

Thx - Shawneeleelee
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Unread 12-05-2006, 10:07 PM   #2
Shaughnn
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Hello Shawn,
Firstly, I think you'll need to trade in those roofing nails for powder-coated screws if you are going to use Durrock. Roofing nails are fine for Hardibacker but Durrock is too brittle and the nails won't hold in it. I don't use Durrock enough to know for certain but I'll stab in the direction of "rough-side up".
Have fun building the castle!,
Shaughnn
PS: I'd love to hear the story about your login. Growing up, my Dad used to call me "Shawneee", and as my last name before marriage was "Lee" I'm very curious.
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Unread 12-05-2006, 10:18 PM   #3
Lazarus
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Yes....."Rough" side up. It gives a better surface to bond to.....
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Unread 12-05-2006, 10:21 PM   #4
shawneeleelee
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Thx Shaughnn,
Durock recommends either galvanized nails or "their" screws.
I was concerned about them pulling, but someone said once the thin set sets up around the nails, they won't move.
I haven't drove one yet, so we will see what happens.
I may try that tomorrow.

Also, the handle is kind of unique. My middle name is Lee, and as I was growing up, some folks called me LeeLee. Thought it didn't stick, I bought this farm where I am building the house in an area called Shawnee, so I thought the handle of Shaneeleelee kinda fit.

Thx
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Unread 12-05-2006, 10:23 PM   #5
Tool Guy - Kg
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Welcome to the forum, Shawneeleelee.

I hate to say it, but I'm gonna hafta disagree with Shaughnn on the roofing nails. They are perfectly ok for use with Durock.

By the way, make sure your "fiberglass tape" is alkali resistant tape specifically made for use with thinset and not the standard drywall fiberglass tape. Look for the stuff near the cement board isle.
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Unread 12-05-2006, 10:30 PM   #6
shawneeleelee
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Thx Lazurus, Rough Side UP.

Bubba, What is the difference between the tapes? Today I compared the Durock alkali resistant tape with the drywall fiberglass tape, which says it is non corrosive. 50' of Durock is $4.00, 300' of drywall tape is $6.00. I am thinking that fiberglass is fiberglass........... But I also at first thought I just needed to add another layer of 1/2" OSB, rather than the cement board.......
Thx agin, Shawneeleelee
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Unread 12-05-2006, 10:38 PM   #7
Tool Guy - Kg
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Unfortunately you need the expensive stuff.

Thinset is not a "nuetral" material when it comes to the pH scale. It is higher up on the alkaline side. And this higher alkalinity will break ordinary drywall fiberglass tape down over the course of time. So for that reason, you need the alkali resistant fiberglass mesh tape.
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Unread 12-05-2006, 10:40 PM   #8
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The alkalai resistant tape is just that...it resists the alkaline content of the thinset. Fiberglass tape will deteriorate whereas the cbu tape will not. Kinda of like scotch tape versus strapping/packing tape.
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Unread 12-05-2006, 10:42 PM   #9
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Bubba, you are making a habit of typing faster than me.
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Unread 12-05-2006, 10:46 PM   #10
Tool Guy - Kg
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Who, me? Sorry, it's in my contract volunteer agreement.



Hey, Shawneeleelee,
I though of this before, but forgot to type it in. You know you can use a thinner 5/16" thick Durock, right? That may help you out with a thinner tile floor that's closer in height to the adjoining floors.
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Last edited by Tool Guy - Kg; 12-05-2006 at 11:24 PM. Reason: Add comment about 5/16" thick Durock
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Unread 12-06-2006, 07:38 AM   #11
shawneeleelee
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Thx again Bubba,
Durock tape it will be.

Also, your mentioning the 5/16 Durock. I have already purchased the 1/2" and carried it in. Since I was buying 60 sheets, I got it for $9.30 a sheet from the "box" store. I could have saved $60 or so w/the 5/16, but my train of thought is thicker is better. The 5/16 seemed quite flimsey, but that is probably not the purpose of using it. Expansion is probably the critical issue.

That does bring up an interesting question. Coming off this, say from the dining room into the living room, I am going to have a 24' section where carpet meets tile. The tile is probably going to end up at 7/8" to 1" higher.
Though I have not put much thought into that issue yet, I was thinking a "thicker" pad under the carpet to bring it up to level.........
Your thoughts on this?

Thx Agin'
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Unread 12-08-2006, 02:15 AM   #12
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A thicker pad would help. "Ramping" up the carpeting with wide cedar roofing shingles is also a common trick...though if this is a wide open space that can be viewed from a distance, you'd probably notice the ramping. Perhaps a beveled wooden threshold is in order...lotsa tile guys do a bit of woodwork to make their own, as they aren't generally available in the thickness needed for a given job.

I know you already have the sheets, but the thicker 1/2" Durock isn't any better for your floor than the 5/16". You aren't being served any more with the thicker sheets of Durck because they add no significant structural value to a floor. Yes the 1/2" is a bit stiffer, but from an engineering standpoint, they are on par with each other for the floor. The plywood below is where you get your strength from. The reason Durock serves you well is because it is a very compatible substrate that minimizes expansion and contraction stresses between the tile and the subfloor.

I tell you, I'm the type that is a glutten for punishment...I'd switch to a thinner board to minimize the floor transition heights. I initially though you were stuck on Durock, but 1/4" Hardibacker would be even thinner. And Ditra is even thiner at a tad over 1/8". And as a huge bonus, you could carry the rolls of Ditra for your entire project in the same time you carried 3 sheets of Durock...as it is extremely light. Take a look here for Ditra. Take a look at the installation video and installation instructions. It's a bit backwards from cement board installation as Ditra is set to the plywood using modified mortar...then the tile is installed on top of the Ditra with un-modified mortar. Pay attention to the details in the instructions if you choose this option.
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