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Unread 06-23-2021, 06:51 AM   #46
ss3964spd
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whoa.

If you cannot relocate the drains to be under that floor then you don't have many options.

I wouldn't use PT around the perimeter. Just use plastic sheeting, or even roofing felt (tar paper) as a moisture barrier. From the looks of the metal studs it doesn't appear you have a moisture issue or they'd be rusty.
If the floor all this is resting on is solid (and given the previous install somehow lasted) notch the joists in the same manner, but use shims wherever needed between the bottom of the joists and the floor, and install blocking between the joists to keep them from twisting/rotating.

I don't think the few feet of perpendicular pipe idea is going to work.
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Unread 06-26-2021, 05:00 PM   #47
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Thanks Dan.

The other reason for PT is termites. It is a losing battle down here. It is not a question if termites will get to it, only when. I treat any regular lumber with Timbor which I believe offer protection for 5 years. The lumber will be hidden so there will no way to reapply. Granted it will take termites 10 years (or more) to get to the point that they jeopardize a 2 x 6 structurally so 15 years for a shower is probably not bad...

I did a bit more demo so here is a look at the actual sub-floor (0.75" ply) and underlayment (also 0.75" ply). See pics. Also attached as a PDF so you can zoom in.
  • The sub-floor is supported by 2 x 4s which are nailed to concrete.
  • The 2x4 in the middle has a 2x4 underneath laying on its broadside.
  • Below all that is stucco (for the porch below).
  • The "crawl space" below is 5.5" high (i.e. height from stucco to sub-floor)
  • The previous shower platform ended by where the concrete beam is. I am planning to extend it a foot or so to hide the PVC pipe and make a bit more room for a free standing tub.

With the disclaimer that this is a public forum which provides free advice, and that an architect or engineer should provide all structural recommendations, does this generally looks ok? Do you see a reason to rip out the subfloor and underlayment?
The plumbing are going to be moved around a bit so the existing holes will remain.
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Unread 06-28-2021, 08:18 PM   #48
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So, what do you think? Ok to build up from this subfloor/underlayment and its support?

Second question. Since I can't get rid of the shower/bathtub ramp, I am thinking to embed / bring down the shower to it (preslope + top mud deck). Otherwise, previously with the curb, it ended up being dangerously high to step down to the bathroom floor.

Does that make it a curbless shower? I am assuming/hoping not. The way I look at it, there is a curb, it is just that there is a floor/ramp at the curb's height.

fair / correct?

If so, I am hoping I can still use a liner (which I know normally you would not use for a true curbless shower).

Attached are pics of my waterprofing proposal. It is not to scale, nor meant to show correct heights of the drain, the 2" from drain to top of "curb", the height of the liner above the curb, etc'.

- In a nutshell, the back and right side of the shower will be typical pan liner construction.
- The liner will be folded as you normally do in all corners.
- On the left side and front, the liner will extend past the 2x4s "curb" and underneath the 2 ply layers of the shower/tub ramp.
- The left side and front will get redgard over the CBU and Kerdi band where the two CBU sheets meet.

What do you think? I know the membrane options will be more elegant, but I rather stick with what I know and have done well in the past.

Thx!
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Unread 07-04-2021, 04:54 PM   #49
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Finally, a new window! I hope this drama is finally over and this project can carry on. They still need to finish the stucco work outside. They were very happy with the window I ordered and the frame that I built.

What do you think about my pan liner idea and the subfloor support in the posts above?

Thx!
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Unread 07-04-2021, 05:14 PM   #50
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How do you intend to fasten the CBU to the inside of your shower curb without penetrating your receptor liner, Dan?
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Unread 07-04-2021, 06:02 PM   #51
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Hi CX,

Obviously can't fasten into the liner. I was thinking to fasten above the liner into the 1.5" of subfloor + underlayment. Can also add a 2 x 2 for the screws to go into (see attached).

Another option i can think of is to fold chicken wire just like you would with regular curb and use stucco instead of CBU.

What do you think?

Thx for the help
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Unread 07-05-2021, 09:38 AM   #52
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When I build a shower like this, I extend the dropped shower area out past the glass 4-5 inches and I run the liner up to the bath floor height. I also make sure I have plenty depth in the shower floor for a little extra pitch on my liner and still have room for 1 1/2 mud bed.

The glass in this pic will be mounted on top of the speed bump but the liner extends out past the speed bump several inches with extra pitch on the preslope.
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Unread 07-05-2021, 10:23 AM   #53
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Wow! nice!

Got it. I'll attach the liner over the underlayment and under the CBU.

1. Is 7" of depth enough to pull this off? In my case i have a raised platform consisting of vertical 2 x 6s and two layers of 3/4" ply. I can raise the platform higher if needed. The p-traps extend below the subfloor so they are not constrained by the 7" depth.

2. If I go with an actual mini-curb below the floor level (i.e. 90 degrees drop onto the shower area), to CX's point, how do you tile onto the "curb"? Stucco over wire? It is only 2" of tile... See pic of a previous shower that I built with this forum's help. I am referring to the curb on the left, only that in this case it is below floor level... If you extend the dropped shower area out past the glass 4-5 inches, maybe you just use mud to form that embedded curb?

3. If I wanted to avoid the hump, and put the glass on the continuous row of the dry area tiles, do you just pitch the last row of tiles towards the shower? Otherwise, the portion of the tiles beyond the glass and inside the shower will be flat vs. pitched... The family is really good about squeegeeing the natural stone showers after they are done though...
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Unread 07-05-2021, 03:20 PM   #54
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1. 7 inches is more than enough.

2. I'm a mud guy so I would have mud where you have plywood. I would have lath on the vertical part of the curb that would extend over on top and under the glass area. You can't nail the lath except outside the wet area. The shower floor mud would hold the lath at the bottom.

3. In that case, it's good to have the glass over a grout joint. That way the piece of tile inside the shower/glass can have pitch.
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Unread 07-11-2021, 09:19 PM   #55
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1. In that configuration (embedded curbless like shower), how do you deal with the 2" PVC pipe? The pre-slope is 1" at the drain and the slope itself is 1.5". The shower drain's PVC pipe is 2" and it is over a 1 x 1 for proper slope (which makes it almost 3" high). It would be good not to have to create 3" thick mud bed...
I added a pic for context but please keep in mind that the new linear drain will be by wall not in the middle of the shower area.
Can I claim some height back with two ply layers? Also, can you "cheat" with the liner by having the mud bed lower than the pipe and the slope a little thinner in that area? At all time a ball rolling down the liner would still head towards the weep holes

2. The previous shower I created was over a slab so I just filled around the drain with cement. Now I am going to have some space between the p-trap and the the subfloor's ply, how do you stop the mud bed from falling though the hole? I am thinking he chicken wire is not going to be enough. Expending foam perhaps?

3. It would be nice to replace the copper pipes on the external cinder block walls before the furring strips and rigid insulation goes up. The copper pipes are held in place by plastic straps and are not touching the cindeblocks directly. Any reason to believe shooting ramset will send vibrations that will weaken the sweated pipes? That is, first put up the furring strips and only then sweat the copper? Or the order doesn't matter?

4. Researching the forum I took the Mrs. to look at made in the USA porcelain tiles like Dal, crossvile, FloridaTiles, etc'. She didn't like any of them.
She wants the Ocala line from Roca (link). Knowing what I know from this forum, I went to search for their certification. They are not certified but self tested: https://rocatileusa.com/wp-content/u...4/08/OCALA.pdf
If you had any good/bad experience with them, please let me know...

Thx!
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Unread 07-18-2021, 02:56 PM   #56
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In addition,

5. I want to extend the original shower wall past the original cinderblock wall and a few inches past an adjacent metal stud (see pic). Is it an issue if a tiled wall spans two different types of wall construction?

Thx!
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Unread 07-20-2021, 08:23 AM   #57
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Not sure what to tell you about the mud bed, Dan, only that I wouldn't want to bury the drain line in the mud unless the PVC was supported on the plywood under it every 6 inches and the mud on top was a couple of inches thick. But maybe the mud guys know better. Ditto on preventing the mud from falling through.

I don't think the ramsets will bother the sweated joints at all, but I'd definitely want to keep the pipes from touching the block wall, even if that means using strips of roofing felt between the blocks and pipes.

Extending the tiled wall past the block wall shouldn't be a problem. I'd consider using some brand of foam board for your water proofing/wall tile substrate as it will probably be tolerant of any small differential movement between the two.
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Unread 07-20-2021, 08:35 AM   #58
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Thx Dan. Lets see what Davy (or others) say about the PVC and mud bed. He posted a picture of similar construction above (a curbless like / embeded shower with traditional pan liner).

Any feedback on the sub-floor support from this post?
https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin...2&postcount=47

Looking at it again, I am not sure if it is adequate support. The 2 x 4 vertical + 2 x 4 horizontal "truss" doesn't span the entire length as presumably it should?
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Unread 07-20-2021, 09:13 AM   #59
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3. I agree with Dan that the Ramset won't hurt the fittings, but using a Ramset on hollow CMUs can be quite frustrating and is more likely to damage the blocks than the pipe fittings. Shoot all the way through the hollow sections, taking a big chunk of block with it. Shoot into the webbing sections OK, but don't always hold well there.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 07-20-2021, 09:53 AM   #60
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Yes, of course. In this house I always shoot into the horizontal mortar joints (in fact every single one through the entire length of the furring strip to be exact) and got really solid results in the past. Mileage will vary of course since not all walls will be constructed equally. Most certainly for me here, even shooting a low powered load directly into the cinder blocks blows them up.

CX (at el), any input on the subfloor here and the PVC pipe vs, mud bed here I will be forever grateful...
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