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Unread 11-18-2012, 09:05 PM   #1
pradoart
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Hesitant to go forward with exterior tile install

I'm an artist who is about to install a large-scale mosaic tile mural for an exterior facade that has been spec'd with the laticrete Blue 92 waterproofing membrane product. After the subs installed it, there were bubbles. Some got repaired but there were still bubbles when they added the cement bond skim coat. Problem #1. Next issue, the product they used was Laticrete 317which requires an additive for exterior applications. Problem #2: no admix, just water was used.

I'm noticing some bubbles under the skim coat which are moving to the touch. Laticrete's website advises how to get rid of them, but with the skim coat how does this get fixed? Should it be a patching job or does the 317 need to get totally removed? (FYI, It is 2 days old.) If so, how does it get removed without further damaging the waterproof membrane? Will that have to be redone as well?
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Unread 11-18-2012, 09:15 PM   #2
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Prad,

Welcome to the forum.

Can you tell us a little more about the substrate?

Sounds to me like the folks responsible for the layers you are working over didn't get it right. Why would you work over this mess and not have it done correctly? Without further information, its likely the bubbles were caused by water trapped below the 92; lack of cure time, weather....
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Unread 11-18-2012, 09:22 PM   #3
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The substrate is Durock. The subs did say that the initial trimwork was sloppy which may be one cause for the issue with the bubbles. There has not been rain but there has been some cold temps. Down to the 30's at night.

The blue 92 says that a thinset application can happen almost immediately after it is dry to the touch.
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Unread 11-18-2012, 09:30 PM   #4
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If your into the 30's at night you shouldn't be installing, You need at least 72 hours above 50 degrees. While going into the 40's won't ruin your install it will slow down the setting process to almost nothing; once you hit mid 30's you are running the risk of permanently weakening the thin set.
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Unread 11-18-2012, 09:36 PM   #5
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Yes, we have been exploring options for tenting & heating the scaffolding for our part of the install which is a whole different thread.... we knew that the weather would be back up to the 40's for lows during our part- but I do think that it dropped way down on the same day this 317 was installed, which of course had no additive that would give it any degree of frost resistance, now or later.
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Unread 11-18-2012, 09:38 PM   #6
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Welcome, pradoart. Please put a first name in your permanent signature line for us to use.

I think you've got a more serious problem than bubbles if that membrane was specified as waterproofing. And in a freeze/thaw environment, I would certainly think you'd want a waterproofing membrane.

Blue 92 can be used in exterior applications as a crack isolation product, but is not indicated by the manufacturer as a waterproofing membrane.

Y'all might wanna back up a couple steps here and sort that out.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 11-18-2012, 09:41 PM   #7
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Sorry for the confusion, it is Blue 92 + the 9235 membrane embedded. Should be waterproof and anti-fracture.

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Unread 11-18-2012, 09:46 PM   #8
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Matters not at all the fabric being used, Jairo, the Blue 92 is not a waterproofing membrane.
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Unread 11-18-2012, 09:48 PM   #9
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The 9235 is a waterproofing membrane.
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Unread 11-18-2012, 09:52 PM   #10
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The 9235 is, indeed, a liquid-applied waterproofing membrane, but if you were using that as your waterproofing you would not be using Blue 92 with it.

With 9235 your wall would be black in color. Is it?
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Unread 11-18-2012, 10:01 PM   #11
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omg you are right, I am looking at the photo on the link you forwarded and it says "waterproofing/antifracture membrane", even the architect spec'd this product as waterproof but we just tested a sample of the membrane cloth we snatched from the site and it is not. WOW. I thought we were the novices depending on the experts for advice.
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Unread 11-18-2012, 10:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jairo
I am looking at the photo on the link you forwarded and it says "waterproofing/antifracture membrane"
You should not see anything like that on the link I posted above, Jairo.

Laticrete makes several waterproofing products that could have been specified it you wanted to stay with that manufacturer.

I will not burden you with my assessment of architects in general.
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Unread 11-18-2012, 10:19 PM   #13
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So if it were you, what would you suggest we require the contractor to do at this point? Should he take it all off and start over again with new Durock or can any of it somehow be salvaged?

I see the waterproofing products offered on the website, should they have used an additional product on top of or beneath the blue 92 or should they have used Hydroban by itself and nothing else?
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Unread 11-18-2012, 10:24 PM   #14
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Just to clear up or cause confusion , I believe Jairo was under the impression that "9235" is the roll of fabric only, and was unaware that there is an accompanying black liquid with the system. He also saw pictured in cx's link to the Blue 92 TDS the box of 9235 fabric, which does indeed say "waterproofing/anti-fracture membrane" on the side. Certainly misleading on Laticrete's part, but in all reality when used with Blue 92 it is reinforcement for anti-fracture and with 9235 liquid the base to bond the material together for waterproofing (which also provides for anti-fracture, but that is a side point).

cx was unaware of Jairo's impressions and a "Who's on first" ensued.

Here's a link to the 9235 which should show the bucket of liquid you need to use for this installation.
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Unread 11-18-2012, 10:25 PM   #15
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I don't see that you've told us anything at all about the construction over which your CBU panels are installaed, making it difficult to comment on what should be done.

But I can't imagine your being able to sufficiently clean the existing substrate sufficiently to apply a proper waterproofing membrane.

You would apply whatever membrane you elect to use per the manufacturer's instructions. I can't imagine anyone, including Laticrete, wanting to install their waterproofing membrane over the existing Blue 92, but ............

And since you have an architect involved, you shouldn't be making that decision, you should simply point out to him that his first choice is inadequate and not per product manufacturer's recommendations. Up to him to figger out how to fix it.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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