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Unread 01-18-2020, 11:34 AM   #46
ss3964spd
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IMO, Karen, a textured anything will be harder to clean than a smooth anything. Inna often used shower I probably wouldn't avoid a glazed textured porcelain tile but definitely would avoid any stone, especially that which has holes in it, unless said stone is well away from water spray and soap/shampoo slinging, and I'd avoid any profiled trim type tile that breaks the plane of the field tile - those ledges are just a collection point for ick. Of course, one could mitigate the ick issue by drying off those tiles with a towel after each shower but that depends on where your maintenance pain point resides. At the end of the day you need to weigh the pros and cons.

In my opinion. All of it.

Here's mine. Might help provoke other ideas.
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Unread 01-18-2020, 11:36 AM   #47
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Of course you'll have maintenance no matter which tile you use but the more textured tiles may need maintained a little more often, depending on just how rough the surface is. That said, use what you like the best.

Nice bathroom, Dan.
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Unread 01-23-2020, 02:16 PM   #48
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Hi Dan,

Your bathroom is beautiful! ... And huge compared to mine!

My house was built as a very small 2 bedroom ranch the early 50's in tech Boston area. Big bathrooms were certainly not something found in those in back then!!!

The house has had couple of additions one the years but still would be considered pretty small today.

Anyway I was wondering what you accent was made out of. I assume you put it that high to keep the water off of it...

I my case I am doing wainscoting around the whole bathroom and the accent would be at the top with a pencil in top to finish it off and think it would be strange to have the accent at different height in the shower than the rest of the room.

So questions about mosaic accents with at least some natural stone... If I go with travertine it will be art least filled...

Anyway for such accents (which could mix stone and glass and metal) it would likely be best to seal before grouting I assume... but if the store is rough/bumpy (not smooth/polished) should one use a grout release after sealing but before grouting too... to ensure no gout will stick.

Secondly can one do then selling and or applying grout release BEFORE the accent is put on the wall.

Thanks
- Karen
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Unread 01-23-2020, 03:02 PM   #49
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Why I asked when to apply sealer/grout release can be applied above...

As I mentioned our main tile is significantly textured/"bumpy" porcelain inkjet tile to simulate natural stone...

My understanding that even thought to me it feels matte to me, it is glazed and that such tiles don't need to be sealed...

But the guy at the tile store yesterday said that we should seal the tiles right out of the box BEFORE the contractor arrives to put them on the wall , and then the contractor should seal the TILES afterwards againas well as the grout .

Apparently he is not the only one who thinks that such tiles should be sealed first... See this from the archives here:
https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin...hp/t-1886.html

My thought was that because from what I've read, grout can be difficult to remove from textured tile that a film forming grout release would be a good idea regardless, but that the main porcelain tiles would not need to be sealed after grouting, only the grout.

1) Can this type of tile benefit from sealing before grouting?

2) Also if the tile does need to be sealed first, since it is significantly textured, would it be a good idea to apply grout release after sealingto make sure there is no problem with residue.

I had never read anything about apply sealer or grout release BEFORE the tile goes on the wall... Is that a good idea?

Thanks,
-Karen
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Unread 01-23-2020, 03:19 PM   #50
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One additional question...

With all I'm reading about how hard it is to get grout off of textured tile, should I not even ask contractors to use it? I know most don't want to use even for flat tile.

I really like what epoxy gout offers, but if it can't be fully removed it will it really mess up the look.

Thanks,
- Karen
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Unread 01-23-2020, 05:09 PM   #51
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Hi Karen,

Mine is just under 100 Sq/Ft. Not "big" by today's standards, but big enough for a space that I don't spend a lot of time in. The accent I used is glass, which absorbs no moisture, and it's positioning was decided solely based on that's where I like it. The large tile is porcelain which absorbs next to no moisture, and all the grout is epoxy which also absorbs no moisture.

If you are using a glazed porcelain for the majority of your tile, regardless of it's texture, I'd be surprised if sealing it will do anything at all. It just won't absorb the sealer. Grout might be more difficult to clean off while being installed so the installer will have to figure out how long he/she can let it set up before cleaning, and may need to their cleaning process.

While we can make some educated guesses, since you have so many types of tile going on you might consider creating a test board or two, with all your different types mounted, and try different processes of grout release, sealer, grout, etc. That's really only way you will know for certain what will work and produce the results you are hoping to see.
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Unread 01-23-2020, 05:43 PM   #52
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For one thing, I doubt the guy at the tile store has set tile before. It'll be easiest to seal after the tiles are set.

I would do what Dan said, make a test board. What you're calling a "rough" surface may not be that rough to us. I've never had the need to seal and use grout release together. Maybe others have.
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Unread 01-23-2020, 07:54 PM   #53
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Dan,
Thanks for the reply.

Because of what the guy at the tile shop said I have been researching grout release/sealing before grouting and found Laticrete's recommendations at:

https://cdn.laticrete.com/~/media/su...170804T164455Z

From that it seems for textured ceramic tile (porcelain is ceramic) they recommend their heavy duty sealer...

As that tile shop sells Laticrete products I suspect that is where he got the sealing before grouting...so maybe it does apply?


Hi Davy,

The sealing AND using grout release after was my idea ... I am just trying to figure out how to maximize the chances of everything turning out right and am willing to do work to make sure it does, if doing it makes any sense. Better safe than sorry!

If sealing or grout release is to be done, I will likely have to do it myself to save money.

In that case his suggestion of doing it straight out of the box (if doing it before it goes on the wall would be effective) would be a heck of a lot easier (and safer) for me. The tile will be going to the ceiling in the tub/shower as well as on the ceiling.

I really appreciate all the information I am getting here!

Another question to all ... Hope I am not being too much of a pain... and I know I tend to be very detail oriented to the point of being annoying... please bear with me.

I am working on how I want the tile laid out. The tile is NOT rectified so will likely need between a 1/8" and 3/16" grout line from what I have read.

For the floor and the lower part of the wall I am thinking about using 8X16" tile with a 50% overlap...

I read that large format tile should only have a 33% overlap, but I'm not sure what is considered "large format"... Is that likely to be an issue for my tile?

In the shower area above the accent strip, I am thinking of using 16X16" tiles that are rotated 45% to look like "diamonds" to make things a bit more visually interesting.

Is that likely to be an issue for any reason?

If 16X16" is large format, do the overlap rules apply to wall tile?

Thanks,
-Karen
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Unread 01-23-2020, 08:27 PM   #54
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Karen, any tile with a side longer than 15 inches is considered a large format tile for the purpose of that offset recommendation. If you have your tiles in hand and you find that they're all sufficiently flat to use a 50 percent offset, that will be fine with the tile industry. That tile industry recommendation if for large tiles in general. That recommendation from the particular tile manufacturer should be considered a requirement. They know something about their tiles, eh?

Where your proposed diamond pattern for your 16x16-inch tiles involves the diagonal cut edge meeting other tiles, the same warpage and lippage considerations might apply.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-26-2020, 10:08 PM   #55
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Hi CX,

On line I found a picture of someone building a shower (including the floor! - attaching picture) using the exact textured tile I plan to use for my bathroom.

It looks like they are using 50% overlap both on the wall and floor.

I went to two different tile stores locally that carry it. At one, the guy there told us we need to do 33% overlap, but their display board used 50% overlap! (picture attached)

At the second store the guy there said with this tile this is no issue with 50% overlap with the 8X16" tiles...

I guess i will tell the installer that I would prefer 50% overlap, but if he thinks there will be a lippage issue after seeing the actual tiles, to do 33%.

Now a new question...

I am going to do a 3CM granite top for the vanity... As the tub we are thinking of getting does not have any storage space at the corners because of design, I was thinking of having 8" rounded front shelves cut from the granite for install in the shower area corners.

Would using 3CM (1.181") granite 8" granite corner shelves cause any issues with the tiles or water proofing because of the weight/thickness?

Also while not really a tile question, can such shelves safely hold large bottles of bath products? i worry about how much weight they could hold.

If there are issue with such corner shelves, maybe I should be considering a storage niche instead - though i suspect that would cost more to have built.

Thanks,
- Karen
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Unread 01-26-2020, 10:33 PM   #56
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The consideration for lippage with the 50 percent offset is the flatness of your tiles, not the ones on display or the ones you've seen in someone else's shower.

1. None, if properly installed.

2. If there are no defects in your 3cm granite 8" corner shelf I would expect no problem with you parking your car on it if you can get it to balance up there.

Get the really big shampoo bottle with the lead base and don't worry.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-26-2020, 10:43 PM   #57
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Thanks CX,

i was not worried about the granite breaking, but about over time teh whole shelf loosening up/pulling out of the wall because of the combined weight of the thick granite and the products stored on the shelf...

The pre-made shelves I sees on-line seen to be 3/4" IIRC.

I have no idea how shelves like that are anchored to the wall, so I thought that might be a long term issue.

Sounds like the answer is no!

-Karen
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Unread 01-26-2020, 11:01 PM   #58
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When I do such shelves I make no effort at all to "anchor" them to the wall, I simply cut proper slots in the wall tile and install the shelves in those slots while setting the walls. Even if you achieved only the minimum required bond of the waterproofing membrane to the substrate and the tile to the membrane (50 psi in each case) and set your shelf on only a single row of your 8" tiles, you'd theoretically have 3200 pounds of support under each leg of your shelf. That's a lotta shampoo, non?

And your shelf should be properly "captured" within those slots to prevent any possibility of someone pulling one out of the corner.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-27-2020, 07:24 AM   #59
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Installing rounded corner shelves of the same material as the vanity top is a great idea, Karen, helps pull the over all design together. If I were doing an alcove tub/shower I'd probably put two in each corner.

If your corner shelves will be subjected to water from the shower head the slots in the tile should be angled to give the corner shelf(s) a proper slope. If they're well away from water spray I wouldn't worry about a slope.

Be sure your granite fabricator knows to finish the curved front, the top, AND the bottom. But not the straight sides.
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Unread 01-27-2020, 09:24 AM   #60
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Thanks Dan!

I would assume they know how to do the shelves since they seem to do it all the time, but I will make sure I mention it.

BTW I went back to the tile store where one of the employees said we needed to seal that textured porcelain before grouting... and spoke to someone else... He was mystified why the other guy told us we should do that.

I asked about needing grout release on those tiles (not the To Be Determined accent), and he asked if a pro would be doing the installation... When I said yes he said there was no need for that either.

On the accent, I have decided that although it is beautiful, I definitely should not use crackled glass in the accent because of potential issues in the shower area...

While I have not completely ruled out natural stone, I think I have ruled out travertine in the accent.

While all natural stone will need resealing, it seems to me travertine with it's holes is asking for issues in the shower in the long term... But that REALLY limits possibilities as most accents seem to use it.

Maybe filled travertine would not be so bad... As one needs to seal before grouting, besides changing the look, I can't help but wonder if after pre-sealing the grout would have tendency to fall out of the larger holes over time.

If I find some good looking porcelain or glass accent that coordinated with the field tile and the style of the bathroom and provides some color, I would go with it, but so far no luck. Still looking.

Thanks for all the guidance!

-Karen
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