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Unread 01-22-2020, 10:48 AM   #1
augmont
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Tiling 2 bathrooms - Forever home

Greetings: I am remodeling my forever home - and old 50's style ranch house. The house sits wood floors (joists w/crawl space) and see pics below. The house has tons of sweat equity in it and I plan to do the tiling myself (to save $$) as I feel I have the skills to complete the work but I lack knowledge to do tiling.

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The rough plumbing as been completed and tested. The plan is a walk in shower (3' x 5'-6") for the master bathroom and a shower tub for the kids/guest. Currently it's open with studs.

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I need some guidance as I watched lots of vids on tiling.

For the walk in shower, the plumber installed an Oatey 2 pc cast iron for the drain which is located in the center. My plan is to install a membrane and mud for the pan and use "quick pitch" shower kit to help to get the slope right and I plan to use CBU for the walls and red guard all of it.

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My questions for the walk in shower are:

1.) is a pre-slope is needed/recommended? I looked at California codes and could not find info if a pre-slope is required.

2.) If a pre-slope is needed or recommended, what prepping will i need to do to the OSB flooring to lay the preslope?

* we decided against a tile seat and are going with a teak shower bench. There will also be no shower door as my wife hates them.


I know I will have lots more questions but this will get me started in my planning. I haven't completely ruled out hiring someone to do the walls, pan, and waterproofing but after my first bid came back (sticker shock) and watching vids, I am pretty confident I can do the the project myself.

I much appreciate your help and guidance through my project.
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Unread 01-22-2020, 11:42 AM   #2
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Welcome, Augmont.

That appears to be a manufactured structure and the first thing I'd want to know before planning any ceramic tile would be the subfloor structure. And the wall structure, too, truth be known. Probably easy enough to fix if necessary for just a shower, but you'll want to know up front whether it's needed.

1. For a traditional shower receptor construction a pre-slope is absolutely required. While your building code may never use the word pre-slope, they will require that the waterproofing membrane must be sloped to drain a minimum of 1/4" vertical for each foot horizontal. A pre-slope is the most common way of doing that. In your place there on the Left Coast, the very old method of hot-mop incorporates that slope in the hot-mop installation. Whatever you chose as your receptor construct, you must have that slope to drain. It's also required by the ceramic tile industry.

I'm really curious about your choice to use CI drain plumbing. That would be among my very last of the available choices of plumbing material in today's market. I'd much rather you had PVC or ABS for that part of your structure.

You might also want to consider one of the alternative methods of receptor construction available today, namely one of the direct bonded waterproofing membrane systems. Just food for thought, nothing wrong with a properly executed traditional receptor construction.

2. For a deck mud pre-slope over a suitable wood framed subfloor you would first install a cleavage membrane of roofing felt, polyethylene sheeting or similar, then fasten 2.5lb expanded metal lath, then place your deck mud with a minimum 3/4" thickness at the drain sloping up to a level perimeter to a height providing the minimum 1/4" per foot slope to the farthest corner from the drain.

I would recommend you dispense with the plastic divider strips in the pre-slope, but absolutely recommend they be eliminated in the final mud bed, which willl be a minimium of 1 1/2" uniform thickness following the slope of your pre-slope under the waterproofing liner.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-22-2020, 02:09 PM   #3
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CX - Thanks for your input.

The house is a traditional 2" x 4" framed house with subfloor. we hired a local house mover to move it onto our property and an architect to draw up plans, permits etc. the floor joist supports are 6' - 6" apart on 2" x 8" but i can see from the pic it looks like a mfg'ed home. I know it's not cuz we currently live in a mfg home . I used your deflecto calc to make sure it can support tile floor and we told the architect that we were using tile for the shower.

I too was curious why they (2nd plumber) choose a CI drain when all the drain piping underneath the house is ABS. I'll be honest that we were just happy the 2nd plumber finished the job cuz our 1st plumber was problematic and we nearly took him to court, long story short. I have no problem replacing the CI drain to ABS/PVC if I need too or if replacing will make things easier as I do the water proofing.

I am open to any alternative receptor construction(?) really so long as I can do the work my self. If you can name a few that would be great.

EDIT: After looking at the Kerdi system, I am going to stay with the traditional receptor construction and will preslope to the drain as CX mentioned.

Now the question is whether to replace the CI drain with an ABS/PVC drain. Part of me would like a 3 PC set so I can adjust the height of the drain if I need too - thoughts?
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Unread 01-22-2020, 04:11 PM   #4
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What is the spacing of the 2x8 floor joists?

If you're staying with the traditional receptor construction, what is your plan for waterproofing the walls?

I would want to change that new plumbing, P-trap, and drain to ABS if that's what you have for the rest of the drain system. And I'd want the 3-piece drain as you've suggested. I would prefer the Sioux Chief drain, but the Oatey is fine, too.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-22-2020, 05:02 PM   #5
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Looked up the sioux chief product line CX, have some pretty slick rough-in products.
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Unread 01-22-2020, 05:06 PM   #6
augmont
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Joist

CX - i was wrong (sorry) my joist are 2" x 6" and NOT 2" x 8". They are 16" O.C. The joist supports are correct at 6'-6". I am glad you made me double check.

On the walls, i was planning to use CBU and red guard but I need to do more research. What do you recommend for a DIY'er with skills?

Also, are ceilings tiled too or just painted?

The P-trap is ABS which is why I thought it was weird he went with a CI drain cap but maybe he was thinking it was going to be hot-mopped so that would make sense to be CI - right?
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Unread 01-23-2020, 06:58 AM   #7
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It seems like your 2X6's @ 16" OC with a free span of 6.5' will work for tile but ya may wanna run it through our "Deflecto", found in the darker blue bar above.

If you've decided on a traditional receptor (pre-sloped mud bed, liner with clamping drain, final mud bed) you can certainly use CBU (but not Hardie) on the shower walls, with RedGard. First mud bed goes in, then the liner, then the CBU, then the final mud bed - which holds the bottom section of CBU tight against the studs. You might consider using a membrane system instead, which will effectively lower your curb - which might become important to you and Mrs. Augmont as you two age.

Can certainly tile the ceiling if ya wanna and if ya like the look, but there's no compelling technical reason to do so for a regular shower.

The CI "cap" is a mystery, maybe it's just what he had on the truck.
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Unread 01-23-2020, 10:19 AM   #8
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That CI two-piece drain seems to be what the hot-mop guys favor out there, Augmont. I've never hot-mopped, so I don't know just why that is. If you're fixin' to use a PVC liner, I'd wanna change that out.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-23-2020, 11:42 AM   #9
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Dan and CX - After more research, the CI cap is for hot mop that us lefty-Cali folks do out here .

I am glad the ceiling is an option cause its already drywalled with mold/moisture resistant drywall and has blow in insulation on top too so taking it out would have been MESSY!! The shower ceiling also already has a can ceiling light install as well so all of this makes my decision to not tile the ceiling very easy.

I will be changing it out to a 3 pc. drain cap and a membrane system is becoming more appealing like the Kerdi board, drain, and liners. Because my shower is 6'-6" long, will that require me to use a mud pan or is a Kerdi pan be custom to fit that length?

Can/should I line the ceiling with the a Kerdi membrane? is it paintable?
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Unread 01-23-2020, 11:49 AM   #10
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Hope you paid attention to the framing requirements for use of that MR board on your ceiling. Not at all a good choice in my opinion.

If you get serious about the direct bonded waterproofing membrane type receptor and shower construction, I much favor the USG Durock Shower System membrane. All you need is the membrane and the drain and both are available on Amazon or from Contractors Direct.

If your ceiling is standard 8-foot height, you need nothing at all up there but paint and/or some texture if desired.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 01-23-2020, 11:49 AM   #11
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You don't have to Kerdi the ceiling. Can I ask what the hesitation is to a Kerdi or Wedi shower pan? They make things really easy for a diy'er.
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Unread 01-23-2020, 12:08 PM   #12
augmont
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CX - I hired a framer to frame my house on the new build area which was about 50% of the house and that included the new master room and bath. it was my decision to use MR board for the bathroom ceilings as I did the drywall myself so I will need to crawl up in the attic and add additional support where I placed MR board.

Jim - I think it has to do with tile cracking on their pans as it looks like very light weight. I think if I saw and felt one in my hand, i would change my mind. Also, my shower is 6'-6" long so not sure if they can be made for a custom fit.
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Unread 01-23-2020, 01:37 PM   #13
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The foam pans are very light weight, Augmont. And are easy to dent, too, until you put tile on them which distributes the point loads.

I recently finished my master bath remodel and used a foam pan for the shower (approx. 42X80). No problems. Many, many other foam pans have been installed and I can't recall a single post on this site mentioning a tile failure attributable to the foam pan.

Foam pans DO have a notable draw back; the subfloor upon which they sit must be pretty darn level. If yours isn't, and you don't want to make it so, a mud pan is for you. Nearly as important, there are some size limitations.

A mud pan doesn't care about a level sub floor, nor about size. They are inexpensive and, for someone who hasn't done one, time consuming (can be said about anything though). If I were doing one I'd do a single mud bed, ditch the liner and clamping drain, and cover it with the membrane and matching drain of your choice.
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Unread 01-23-2020, 06:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim
They make things really easy for a diy'er
For the record, that's not necessarily a universally held opinion, compared with a deck mud shower floor.
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Unread 01-24-2020, 06:38 PM   #15
augmont
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My wife told me we have more time than money so get working

I think a mud pan and Kerdi board or equivalent (insert brand here) is the route I'm leaning towards but definitely a mud pan. I need to get all my things lined up along with a budget so I know what my costs are going to be. My wife would like someone else to do the tiling as she thinks I'm taking on too much with all of the other things I'm doing as our goal is for us to move in around Labor Day. I have a great neighbor helping me out and is bored as hell so that's a big help!

I will start on my kitchen cabinets shortly as I don't think it will take too long to construct as I have it all mapped out, cut list, etc. It's too cold to paint so I will need to hold off until late March or April to paint them and so I will work on the shower pan and walls until then.

CX - how do you include someone's quote in your reply like you just did?
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