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Unread 10-26-2019, 01:19 PM   #61
smooth nobody
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you sound more confused than i am. i have a proper 5X9 liner from lowes. not sure why you think the white strips is a liner. i wasn't planning on sticking tile or redgard to the liner. i wouldn't be putting the cement board next to the mud bed. the mud would go all the way to the wood frame, the liner would attach to the wood frame 3 inches above the curb, the cement board would go on top of the pan. if i get my liner right i would not use redgard for the pan cause of the mold sandwich, so the weep holes would not matter.

for the record, yes, i am conscious about my money, who isn't? that doesn't mean i will compromise my shower over a few bucks. i will rip out the mud and start from scratch if i deem it necessary. i'm just not convinced that's necessary at this point.
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Unread 10-26-2019, 01:26 PM   #62
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Please tell me what those white strips are.

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Unread 10-26-2019, 01:27 PM   #63
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in post 43 you said part of the problem with removing the cement board would be the half inch gap around the perimeter of the shower and unsupported edges. you guys have not addressed my suggestion of building the wood frame and adding more mud to fill that half inch gap. if i have the wood frame to attach the liner to, no half inch gap, liner behind the cement board, cement board on top of the pan, whats the problem?

EDIT - the bed is sloped. i will tell you guys what the white strips are. i did mention i don't know and my buddy will be here today. i will ask him and report back.
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Unread 10-26-2019, 01:41 PM   #64
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I recall you mentioned you'd ask your friend about those plastic strips, NB, just didn't know if you'd gotten the answer yet.

I'm unclear what you mean by wood frame. Are you suggesting removing the CB, then adding "blocking" between the metal studs to give you something to attach the liner to?

If so, it still doesn't resolve the significant thickness of the folded liner in the corners.
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Unread 10-26-2019, 02:07 PM   #65
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correct, wood "blocking" between metal studs to attach liner to, mud in the half inch gap all the way to the wood so the mud pan is completely level with no gap. i also said i'm willing to install vertical wood studs to tuck liner in to corner, or notch out wood. but according to image 6 posted in the shower construction thread folding the liner in the corners is acceptable.

https://www.johnbridge.com/how-to/sh...-installation/
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Unread 10-26-2019, 02:32 PM   #66
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If you can get some 2X6's, or edge stacked 2X4's securely fastened between the metal studs to attach the liner to, that'll solve one issue. And filling the 1/2" gap with more deck mud solves another. You won't know if you can tuck the folds between the metal studs that form the corners until you take down the CB to see if there's space. But since the CB has to come down regardless, no time lost there.

If you can tuck the liner in then you'll still have a hump in the CB the thickness of the liner because the liner will be laying atop the face of the studs. Not ideal when it comes to setting the tile, but with careful attention to troweling the thinset tile mortar it might yield acceptable results. You could perhaps affix some 1/16th" strips to the face of the metal studs, maybe drywall shims stuck on with that spray adhesive, then hang the CB.

If you cannot tuck the folds into the corners you'll have to affix shims that are as thick as the corner folds on all the studs to keep them in plane. Only material I can think of is wood, and you'll have to screw it to the studs, counter sinking the heads.
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Unread 10-26-2019, 02:42 PM   #67
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i went and took a peak at my studs in the corner, plenty of room to tuck the liner in between.

sounds like we have a solution without ripping out the mud, right?
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Unread 10-26-2019, 02:50 PM   #68
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Unless I'm missing something it looks like there's a way forward. You'll know better once you remove the CB and test fit the liner.

Regarding the liner, remember a previous post that detailed how it needs to be fitted over the curb.
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Unread 10-26-2019, 03:09 PM   #69
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i haven't been here very long, but i feel like i've been through alot with you guys and need to get something off my chest. i feel like you guys stopped listening to me at some point and just kept talking over me about how we f@cked up and there is no way forward. and now, after i repeated my ideas several times to make sure you hear me, making minor changes to my plan as i listen to your thoughts why my ideas won't work, it looks like there "may" be light at the end of the tunnel.
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Unread 10-26-2019, 03:45 PM   #70
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NB, several folks, me included, offered what we felt was the best way forward, considering time, money, and crucially, a water proof end result. Whether you choose to heed that, I think unanimous, advice is up to you.

Up until post 58 you did seem to be hanging on to not removing the CB and trying to find a way to make the idea of sticking the liner to the face of the CB work, or trimming it to just above the mud bed work. In post 58 you did reach the conclusion that removing the CB was the way to go, which is what folks were advocating all along I think. If you reached that conclusion prior to post 58 I, for one, missed it. I believe some, if not all, would still remove the existing mud bed, because filling in that 1/2" gap results in a cold joint that shouldn't be there. But given it's location it probably won't be an issue.

We're all volunteers here, NB, only trying to help. Likely, just as you feel you were not being heard I feel that some folks may have felt they, too, were not being heard. It does happen, both ways. How we get past it is what matters. No sense in re-hashing it, time to move forward.
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Unread 10-26-2019, 03:55 PM   #71
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i'm cool. just speaking my mind. young guns often don't get heard by old timers unless we speak up or step on some toes.

i was never unwilling to remove the cement board or pan. i'll do whatever it takes. i just don't immediately do something because somebody tells me to. i have to explore other options and come to the conclusion it's the best way forward.

i know you guys are trying to help. i acknowledged that and told you i'm appreciative. don't mistake me using my voice for being unappreciative.
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Unread 10-26-2019, 04:10 PM   #72
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Old timers? That's an assumption. Stepping on toes of a all volunteer "staff" is done at your risk.

An old timer once told me that if you hear the same thing from 3 unrelated sources there must be some truth to it. Some of the many words I live by.

Onward.

Question on your shower curb. I cannot tell from the photo, did you use pressure treated 2X4's to build it?
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Unread 10-26-2019, 04:23 PM   #73
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I'm young and had the opposite experiences with "old timers." I generally say "Hey, wait a minute, doing _____ this way will cause problems." And then I get the whole "I been doin' this 50 years and have installed 5000 showers without any callbacks with mastic and drywall and I once built up a floor with 4 inches Customblend thinset" or something asinine like that.
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Unread 10-26-2019, 06:12 PM   #74
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assumptions are dangerous, but pretty confident the overwhelming majority of you guys are older than us. if i said ruffle some feathers instead of stepping on toes would that be less abrasive?

we did use pressure treated wood.

i asked my buddy about the white strips. i'm not articulating this as well as he did, but basically he said it's a temporary guide for the trowel when doing the slope.

an idea he came up with was instead of fighting with the cement board to get it out below the pan and filling the half inch gap with mud, we could cut the cement board where it meets the pan. my response was it gives water a place to escape. he said if the liner fails the mud and wood blocking isn't going to stop the water either. he said the concrete board will actually absorb more water than the mud. my next response was what about the slope? he said the pan is already sloped so if we cut along the pan the cement board will be cut at the same angle. he admits it's not ideal, but neither is trying to remove the cement board. he said whether it's mud or cement board that fills that half inch gap is less of an issue than having a gap for the liner to sink in to.
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Unread 10-26-2019, 06:34 PM   #75
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It's only a few screws, back them out and remove the CBU. Leave the mud and fill the 1/2 gap with cement. The mud bed you now have is the preslope. The only thing it does is give the pan liner pitch to the drain. I assume the mud has pitch.

I'll stop right there for a minute. Lets look at your Amazon drain. If I remember correctly, it's 2 7/8 tall. I guess that's the trough part of the drain. Answer this, from your drain/ mud you now have in place, the finish floor will be at least 2 7/8 higher than that. Will that work? If not, the mud and floor will need to be lowered for this drain to work. They do make shorter profile drains that might work better.
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