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Unread 10-26-2021, 02:51 PM   #1
claassen
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Bruce's Master bath remodel

I'm renovating a bathroom and adding a tiled shower. There will be a pony wall on one side of the shower. It will have tile on the inside of the shower, and the top. There will be a glass panel on top of the pony wall, and then the side of the pony wall outside the shower will be painted drywall.


I've ready in other posts about capillary action behind the tile pulling moisture beyond the waterproof barrier, and am a little concerned how to do that top outside corner. There will be a Schluter deco sg (SG100AE12) channel in the middle of the top of the pony wall, embedded in the tiled top for the glass panel. There will also be Rondec on the outside corner where tile top meets the drywall side.


Is there something that is needed to prevent moisture from traveling across the top of the tiled pony wall and down the drywall side?


Thanks in advance for lending your expertise. It is greatly appreciated.
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Unread 10-26-2021, 03:17 PM   #2
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Welcome back, Bruce,

Sounds like my pony wall; tile one side, drywall the other, glass panel on top (but no in a channel).

You didn't mention anything about how you intend to water proof that pony wall.

As for the water migration issue, do you mean on top of the pony wall? I'm not quite sure how water will migrate past the glass. Perhaps you mean water migration under the tile?
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Unread 10-26-2021, 05:30 PM   #3
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The pony wall will be waterproofed with Kerdi-board and band on the top and inside. I've read in other threads/forums how moisture can seep outside the waterproofing zone because it will seep in through the grout and travel along the waterproofing. Since I'm not an expert in this area, I don't know how likely this is to happen, or not.
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Unread 10-26-2021, 06:57 PM   #4
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I don't know, too, Bruce.

We've had a few reports here of water passing behind the tile at shower enclosure/wall junctions, so we know it can happen. How common? Tough to tell. Why does it happen sometimes and not alla time? I dunno.

I have a couple direct bonded waterproofing membrane showers out there that I have occasion to visit occasionally that have glass embedded into the tile on half-wall tops and and side walls. Oldest is about 12 years, other about 7 years. Neither shows any sign of the phenomenon of which you speak.

No idea what makes the difference.
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Unread 10-27-2021, 06:46 AM   #5
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My pony wall was was done with foam board on the inside, and membrane covering the horizontal top and vertical end, and adhered to the foam board in the usual way, mortar. It differs from yours in that I chose solid stone for the top and end to eliminate grout joints. The glass sits on the stone and is sealed with clear silicone, and colored silicone seals the bottom inside edge of the stone to the tile.

Two year in is hardly a longevity test but so far, so good.
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Unread 10-27-2021, 07:06 AM   #6
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On this pony wall, I used vinyl drywall corner bead between the Kerdi board and the drywall.

It was all topped with non absorbent solid surface (Corian) with silicone caulk between the Corian and tile on the inside. Glass is on top of the Corian.
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Unread 10-27-2021, 07:25 AM   #7
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Thanks for all of the replies. I imagine that sloping the waterproofing material on the top of the pony wall would mitigate this issue. It might make it harder to get that Schluter glass channel level but seems like it would prevent the moisture issue.

Thanks again.
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Unread 11-01-2021, 12:29 PM   #8
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Wet shimming walls - a couple of questions

Moving on to other issues in this remodel...

For the most part, the walls where I'll be tiling are level there are a few studs that are bowed out into the shower area. I'm planning to try to plane the crown down, but suspect that regardless, I'll have to wet shim the kerdi-board installation. So, I have a couple of questions. I already have a bunch of bags of Allset that I'll be using for the project, but wondered if I can use a cheaper thin-set to wet-shim? I have a half a bag of Custom Multiset left over from an unrelated rental property project. That's half the price of Allset. Am I being too cheap?

Also, the shower wall that will need to be wet shimmed is 98" wide by 9' tall. When wet shimming with kerdi-board, is it easier to install the sheets vertically on this wall, or horizontally? Since it's 9' tall, either way, it's going to take more than 2 sheets of 4x8 Kerdi-board.

Thanks.
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Unread 11-01-2021, 07:59 PM   #9
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Hi Bruce, as noted by schluter, the type of thinset mortar you use doesn't matter at all for wet shimming (modified, unmodified, cheap, expensive). The entire purpose is to just be able to squish down so that the surface is plumb and flat, and dry after a day or so. I'd use the cheap stuff.

for orientation, I would prioritize first the cheapest option, which means the fewest seams (less kerdi band/screws). then go for the fewest seams towards the bottom. The reason being that anything above 8 ft is unlikely to see much water behind the tile compared to something at 4'.
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Unread 11-02-2021, 07:27 AM   #10
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Bruce, left over mortar is a crap shoot, especially an open bag of it. If it's only been sitting around for a few weeks I'd use it, but much longer than that I wouldn't. Un opened bags of mortar absorbs moisture slowly, open bags, well...

I've not wet shimmed. I got my walls flat by planning, sistering, and drywall shims.

As Cliff points out anything above 8' is unlikely to see any water. For that matter, anything above 6.5 feet is unlikely to see much. IMO, you could simply use drywall from about 7' on up, and use Kerdi band and mortar for the drywall to Kerdi board joints.
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Unread 11-02-2021, 10:06 AM   #11
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Thanks for the replies. That bag of multiset has probably been open since mid-July. Sounds like I shouldn't use it.

There will be a rain head hanging from the ceiling. The arm that I have will drop it about a foot from the ceiling. Does that change whether I need to waterproof that last foot at the top? Seems like it would be wise to install Kerdi-board all the way to the top, but I'm obviously not the expert here.

Thanks again.
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Unread 11-02-2021, 10:32 AM   #12
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That bag of mortar should be used for yard bunnies.

I would waterproof to the ceiling if not grossly inconvenient, although it's probably not absolutely necessary.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 11-02-2021, 01:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce
Does that change whether I need to waterproof that last foot at the top?
Not in my opinion.

The general standard for shower head height is 80" above the finished floor. So a person who is 6' tall would have 8" of clearance between the top of their noggin to the bottom of the head. When was the last time you saw water on the wall at 6'8" that wasn't caused by condensation?

Given your plans to install a rain head, and given your 9' ceiling, I personally wouldn't install it at 8', for 2 reasons; 1) the higher the head is the more the water will cool before reaching the targeted noggin. 2) as with any shower head you'll need to clean off the nozzles frequently. 8' up is a looong reach unless you have, well, a long reach.

I've recently torn out two bathrooms, both with standard height heads, and both with the tile ending below the shower head arm, with plain, painted drywall above the tile. In both cases the drywall was bone dry with no indication it had ever been wet, it was rock solid. I'm sure it absorbed some moisture of the 40 some years but was no worse for the wear.

Just my experience, other's may differ.
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Unread 11-02-2021, 01:43 PM   #14
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I'd not noticed the 9-foot ceiling, Bruce, and I'd hafta agree with Dan that waterproofing the wall that high would not be at all necessary, 'specially if you're using 8-foot wallboards.

As for the rain head, I'd need a ladder to clean one hung at 8 feet, or seven feet, or even 6 feet, so installed height wouldn't make any difference to me where cleaning was the consideration. As far as functionality, I can't testify. Never have used one. Have had complaints and praise from customers about them, and know that type and brand appears to make a difference, but I have no opinion beyond that.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 11-19-2021, 12:47 PM   #15
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The order of things...

I'm going to preface this with the knowledge that I'm probably way overthinking things, and this may be a really stupid question...

I'm at a place in the bathroom remodel where I could probably go several different directions based on what needs to be done. The next steps are:
  1. Pour Liquid Backerboard to flatten/level the shower pan area and entire floor.
  2. Install kerdi-board on shower walls
  3. Set Schluter shower pan and drain
  4. Lay Ditra and waterproof bathroom floor.
  5. Tile shower walls
  6. Tile shower pan
  7. Tile bathroom floor.

I know from lurking on these forums that if I ask 10 people what order they'd do this in, I may get 10 answers. I'm asking anyway.
I think my plan would be to do them in the order listed, but just curious what others would do in my shoes? (For example, I know some people swear by tiling the shower walls before pan, and vice versa)

Thanks in advance. The people who post on these forums are a huge asset to people like me, and I greatly appreciate it.
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