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Unread 10-25-2021, 07:45 AM   #16
lisamarie
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Thank you all, I really enjoy/appreciate the detailed info. It helps make sense of things. Carbide-I have determined the particle board is not under the walls thankfully however they are held in place by some combination of nails/staples so they're far from coming up in anything solid. Crow bar & hammer is the name of the game. As suggested by SS, I'm going to reinforce the planking to the joists with screws. To understand the referenced sizes, the fasteners going through the planks should go through joists, the plywood fasteners as well, the CBU fasteners just to the planking, avoiding the joists, correct?

I mistakenly called an option "Severe Weather" when in fact it was the brand name (fyi-rated "exterior"). The difference in this and the "standard" (ReliaBilt brand-rated EP1) I referenced, was pressure treating. Not sure if this link will display the comparison I'm looking at:

https://www.lowes.com/LowesProductCo...=1711906721756

I have started to demo the shower/finished walls in attempt to replace some subflooring in order to start the original job of installing tile lol. I'm now also awaiting a plumber to see if moving the toilet to the opposite wall is feasible. I'd really like to maximize the area for a larger shower however I've heard sometimes it's not worth it. We shall see.
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Unread 10-25-2021, 07:56 AM   #17
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You don't want to fasten your second layer of plywood subflooring to anything but the first layer of subflooring, Lisa Marie. Here's a good article from our Liberry showing what I think is the best method of installing the second layer and while it presumes plywood or OSB as the first layer, the method is what I'd use over you boards as well. All fasteners for the second layer would fully penetrate the first layer, but would not hit any of the joists.

You do not want to use any pressure-treated plywood.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-25-2021, 09:08 AM   #18
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Thanks for that, I never would of guessed that 1/4 point of span layout. Makes sense though. I'll be checken the bridges and researching more of the liberry!

So, if my planks are my subfloor, and my CBU my underlayment, what's the plywood considered? Although I now know how everything needs to lay in reference to joints/butting, I'm getting confused on which way to run the plywood and CBU-and I'm supposing the 45* planks don't play into this equation.

I'm currently of the mind that ideally the plywood and tile will run perp to the joists/CBU. If that's accurate, that works for me. But what if someone wanted their tile running the same way their joists happen to be laying?
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Unread 10-25-2021, 09:46 AM   #19
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Lisa Marie,

The second layer of plywood is also considered subflooring, just a second layer of subflooring. The long edge of the plywood should run perpendicular to the joists and yes, the 45* planks don't factor into how the plywood is oriented. The CBU underlayment doesn't care how it is oriented to the joists either, just avoid having 4 corners coming together, and be sure to stagger the seams so that they do not align with your subfloor seams. From there you can run your tile in any direction you and/or Mr. Lisa Marie would like.
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Unread 10-25-2021, 10:14 AM   #20
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What Dan said.

I note from your Profile that you're an A&E mechanic (was A&P back in my day) for the government. You work only on top secrete planes? It's OK if you'll hafta kill me if you tell, I'm old anyway.
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Unread 10-25-2021, 11:08 AM   #21
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SS-Well explained. Got it, thank you!

CX-I lied, your eyes are not keen Sir. I ran and checked, still an A&P to this day. However yes, I do and all I need now is your precise location

I'm really jealous of all of the priceless knowledge you guys share.
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Unread 10-25-2021, 11:21 AM   #22
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Was reading over the thinset I purchased:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/MAPEI-Porce...Mortar/3743819

Is it your opinion that you need a different thinset for tiles over 12-15 inches? I'm using 8x36.
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Unread 10-25-2021, 12:46 PM   #23
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It is common for tile mechanics to use the LHT (Large & Heavy Tile) mortars with those wood-look tiles. Formerly known as "medium bed" mortars, but there is not medium-bed method of tile setting and that nomenclature was abandoned by the industry some years ago. It's still erroneously printed in some manufacturer's literature.

Do you actually need such a mortar with your tiles? I dunno. If your substrate is flat and your tiles are flat (more rare in those long plank-style tiles), you should not really need anything more than a modified thinset mortar (ANSI A118.4). The industry recommendation of an LHT mortar for anything with an edge longer than 15 inches is a bit arbitrary to my thinking, but I didn't get a vote.

It may be somewhat safer to use a mortar classified as A118.4H or T, the H being for heavy and T being thixotropic and the designation for non-sag properties, but whether you actually need that with your tiles is less clear to my thinking.

The mortar you linked is not an H or T rated mortar. Indeed, MAPEI's TDS indicates a few of the tests related to ANSI A118.4, but does not actually indicate that it meets that standard. I believe that particular mortar is one of the type that manufacturers make specifically for exclusive sale at the major home centers. I am not personally familiar with its use.

If you like it and find that it works with your tiles, use it. If you want to remain with that brand, but want an LHT rated mortar, you might look at MAPEI Large-Format Floor & Wall Tile Mortar. Don't know if you can get that at Lowe's, if that's where you wanna shop.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Originally Posted by Lisa Marie
CX-I lied, your eyes are not keen Sir. I ran and checked, still an A&P to this day.
That wasn't my eyes, that was my failing brain. I typed it backward. You are A&P and in my younger days I think the designation was A&E. As in currently being Airframe and Powerplant vs. Airframe and Engine in my day. Someone was anticipating the advent of electric motor powered aircraft, perhaps?
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Unread 10-28-2021, 06:49 AM   #24
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The more labor I'm putting into this project, the less I'm concerned with cost

How's about another return of 35 sheets of CBU in the pickup? Now I'm researching Ditra XL vs. Ditra in place of the 1/4 CBU.

I located a 2014 thread/debate regarding the differences. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm thinking the XL will be worth the cost in my situation?

Refresher so not to have to go back to the original post......Subfloor consisting of 1x8 planks, soon to be covered with 1/2 plywood, over 2x8 joists-16/OC-11.5 Span
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Unread 10-28-2021, 07:43 AM   #25
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I was going to suggest you look at Ditra earlier but did not figure you would want to return cement board a second time. I am just a homeowner but have used both. Ditra is going to be more expensive but a lot easier to put down and a bunch easier to cut. I am not sure what the advantages of XL are other than being thicker.
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Unread 10-28-2021, 07:56 AM   #26
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Yeah, which is really what deterred me from it initially. It comes out to about 2 x's the cost but the more I read about it, the more it makes sense for me. What's a little more hard labor in the grand scheme of things, right? Phil, you can always swing by if you're feeling sympathetic ya know.
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Unread 10-28-2021, 08:26 AM   #27
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Should be no problem getting Phil to come help, Lisa Marie. The "Eastern Shore" is just up the street from Oklahoma, yes?

The advantage of Ditra XL over the original Ditra is that there is more of the "uncoupling" effect, which is a rather nebulous concept not defined by the ceramic tile industry and for which there is no established standard. But you'd have twice as much of it.

A second advertised advantage of the Ditra XL is its height, which is supposed to be just right to make your somewhat common 3/8ths" tile surface flush with an adjacent harwood floor installed over the same subfloor.

The ease of installation of either Ditra, as Phil points out, is another big advantage. Whether that is enough to compensate for having to return still another batch of CBU to the purchase point or not is entirely up to you. Handling the CBU one more time while not actually ever installing it would certainly qualify as a PITA in my book.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-29-2021, 09:06 AM   #28
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CX, you're right. You're much closer. Surely you know to expect the perpetual I-35 construction.

Here are pictures of the current state of things. 1 more day of pulling up particle board should do it. 1 (4x8) sheet takes a solid, non-stop hour of demo/back breaking work. At about 50-60 3 inch screws per board, there's no such thing as pulling up solid piece. The floor looks good overall but as you can see, every once in a while I get the opposite. Do you think these individual boards are worth replacing?

Ohhh man. Popcorn ceilings that have been painted none the less, multiple times. I promptly learned scraping was out of the question. I got desperate after about a 1 foot section that took 20ish minutes. I grabbed my orbital and a 60 grit disc and went to town. At this time I was unaware of the possibility of asbestos in pre 1977 popcorn ceilings. (I have a 63) Thankfully, I was wearing a respirator. Even with the sander however, it is taking quite a bit of time and I'm really not certain I want to even continue, asbestos being considered. I have half of the house (approx 1600 sq. ft.) covered in it, I really don't want to shiplap every room. I haven't decided how to move forward with this.

The shower disassembled quite easily, thanks to the water damage/mold. The only thing that kept it up was the solid 1.5 inch bed sitting on the joist. I don't know if it's the original, maybe it was put in during the 80's add on. Regardless, I'm guessing it's served its warranty.

Our truck bed is loaded down, headed to the dump. Looking to be a busy weekend.
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Unread 10-29-2021, 09:48 AM   #29
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A lotta work, that, just keep reminding yourself the results justify the effort.

I'd only worry about the subfloor boards if any of them are cracked across. A missing chunk here and there won't be an issue, the 1/2" ply will easily bridge those voids so long as they aren't too large.

You're going to be running in a lot of screws, Lisa Marie, a lot. If you don't have one you might consider purchasing an impact driver. Also some knee pads. Where the subfloor board ends abut you may need to pre-drill the holes for the screws so the ends of the boards don't split.

Popcorn ceilings are no joy to remove, as you've tragically discovered. Given your situation I'd seriously, very seriously, consider just covering it all with new drywall.
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Unread 10-29-2021, 10:01 AM   #30
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Tile industry standards are based upon your subfloor being nominal 1" boards (actual 3/4") with T&G edges and oriented perpendicular to the joists. While you don't have two of the three criteria, your floor looks pretty sound from over here. The minimum requirement over such board subfloors is nominal 1/2" exterior glue plywood. Because of the diagonal orientation of your boards, you might consider using thicker plywood for your second layer, but I'm not sure you need more than the minimum thickness. The plywood is primarily intended to isolate your ceramic tile installation from the instability of your sawn boards.

I don't think you need to replace the board shown in your photo, but do heed my warranty information below and consider that I'm not really on site to more adequately judge the situation.

Painted popcorn ceilings are a bitch to remove. If you've not yet tried wetting your ceiling, I'd at least try that before you give up entirely. With water-based paints, I'm sometimes found you could still spray the ceiling with water (good garden sprayer) and let it soak for a while and scrape off the texture with a drywall knife. May take two or three wettings and much waiting. And it may not work at all.

And I see Dan is much quicker and more efficient than others this morning.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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