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Unread 04-26-2010, 03:59 PM   #1
madronatile
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Warning: This tile is junk?

Some 12x24 porcelain on jobsite, all have this sticker. Are they saying one can't set these in running bond? 6cm offset might not even be quarter-setting.

Also, this is the first batch of tiles I can remember with no country of origin on the box. Did the rules change recently about that kind of thing?
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Unread 04-26-2010, 04:13 PM   #2
dhagin
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Yea thats not even 2-1/2". What they may be pointing out, is that with allowable curvature/warpage of tiles that setting on a running bond MAY not keep you within allowable lippage. If the tiles are all flat, then running bond should be no more problems than usual.

My understanding is that there is some effort being made to rectify/clarify this within the industry standards, but not sure if it's been incorporated into the new standards yet.
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Unread 04-26-2010, 04:28 PM   #3
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Yeah, I've seen this a lot in many of the larger porcelain tiles. Sometimes they all have a different curvature and its even difficult to lay them in a straight joint pattern.
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Unread 04-26-2010, 04:34 PM   #4
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I have run into that same thing a few times. All with 12x24's. The curvature was uneven with one end dipping down more than the rest. A bit of a challenge and no razor thin grout lines possible. We had to jump up to a 3/32"
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Unread 04-26-2010, 04:51 PM   #5
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That tile packaging indicate it meets A137.1 standards, Matt?

Like Dana, I know the technical committees have been working on this. The last proposed requirement was that the standards would recommend tiles of a certain size be staggered no more that 1/3rd the longest dimension of the tile on a running-bond layout. But, also like Dana, I don't know that it's been published anywhere as yet.

And for tiles the size of the ones Matt has, they could all be well within spec for flatness and still have an unacceptable lippage problem even with that restriction and a pretty wide grout joint. Which, I'm sure, is exactly what that manufacturer is covering it's posterior for with that label.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 04-26-2010, 08:40 PM   #6
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Would TLS "rectify" this problem? Pun intended.
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Unread 04-26-2010, 09:24 PM   #7
tilelayer
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No. These tiles have a slight hump in them the middle being the highest and the edges being the lowest when you set em on running bond you get lippage. I have mudded floors and set these and still had lippage.
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Unread 04-26-2010, 09:44 PM   #8
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Matt,
Why'd you sell your client junk?
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Unread 04-26-2010, 10:52 PM   #9
Brad Denny
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At that last NTCA workshop Gerald Sloan said that the classification for a "large dimension tile" is one that has one side larger than 15". Whether that is set in stone or not (pun intended), I dunno. Would be a good classification though, to take the responsibility off the installer's back to have a lippage free floor using a big tile onna brick joint. Glad that sticker's there.
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Unread 04-26-2010, 11:44 PM   #10
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Brad, thats the same thing i was told awhile back at the NTCA event I attended cept micheal whistler was the presenter. He also mentioned something about a spec. being drafted up in tcna or ntca book about the running bond issue. It would be great to see that in lit. to show clients why its less then ideal.
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Unread 04-27-2010, 01:51 AM   #11
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Jeremy,
In the past, I've just held a straight-edge to the face of the tile to explain the issue to clients. Most get it right away.
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Unread 04-27-2010, 02:01 AM   #12
Higher Standard Tile
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What is the brand and name of tile?

Like to know where it is made. But I must say cudos for actually giving a proper warning of product limitations.
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Unread 04-27-2010, 05:35 AM   #13
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Brad I have set 10x16 and 8x12 on brickbond on shower walls and had really bad humps in the tile.
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Unread 04-27-2010, 06:06 AM   #14
gueuzeman
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Matt/madrona- there may not be a country of origin but there has to be a name of manufacturer and series, right?

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Unread 04-27-2010, 11:38 AM   #15
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This came from Daltile about 2 years ago:

Rectified tiles continue to increase in popularity, particularly in the commercial arena. For years, the industry and Dal-Tile have recommended that Rectified tiles can be installed with a 1/16” grout joint. However, from the contractor’s perspective, installations have become more time consuming and difficult to ensure compliant installations when attempting to install a Rectified tile with a 1/16” grout joint. In response, the new TCNA (Tile Council of North America) Handbook addresses this issue by recommending that the width of the grout joint used be determined by the ANSI A108.02 specification which states that the actual grout joint size shall be at least 3 times the actual variation of facial dimensions of the tile. To simplify: Rectified tiles, regardless of size, shall have a grout joint width no less than 1/8”. As a result, Dal-Tile is changing its recommended grout joint width to be 1/8” for all of its Rectified tiles.

In addition, we will no longer recommend in our literature that Rectified and Non-Rectified large format rectangle sizes (Ex: 12” x 24”) can be installed in a brickwork or running bond pattern where the overlap is 50%. The reason for this is that the allowable warpage for a tile based on ANSI specifications can create an installation issue when large format rectangular tiles are installed in a brickwork/running bond pattern. This allowable warpage can create a scenario where lippage is inevitable given the overlapping pattern. To mitigate this effect, Dal-Tile will be removing the brickwork pattern from our catalogs and literature. This will be replaced by a new pattern that will be referred to as a “Staggered” brickwork pattern where the overlap does not exceed 33%, and the grout joint width must be a minimum of 3/16”.


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