Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 07-10-2008, 08:03 PM   #1
TN_Chris
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5
TN_Chris' small master bath remodel

I'm in the process of remodeling our small master bath. I've torn out the old tub/shower insert and plan to replace it with a custom ditra shower with mud pan.

My first question pertains to the subfloor. Right now I have 5/8" of flooring grade plywood on 2x10 joists 16" oc, spanning 11'-9".

The floor and shower floor will be covered with pebbles (see pic below).


What do you folks recommend for a subfloor in my situation? I'm not too concerned about thickness since I will soon replace the bedroom carpet with hardwood floors.

Also there is a floor squeak where three sheets of plywood meet. I'd like to remedy that now, too. Suggestions?

This is my first post, but I've been lurking and learning for a while now. This is a great forum. Thanks to those who make it available and to those who so freely share their advice.
Attached Images
 
TN_Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Unread 07-10-2008, 08:05 PM   #2
TN_Chris
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5
Here are the manufacturer recommendations for installing the pebble product:

Materials:
3/8” notched trowel
Thin set mortar
Natural stone and grout sealer
Sanded grout
Damp Sponge
Rubber Float
Preparation:
Area of application should be flat, clean and free of contaminants. For wet areas a reinforced waterproof membrane is recommended. Pitching a floor to a drain should have a minimum fall of 2 inches.
Installation:
No two pieces of natural stone are exactly alike. All tiles must be inspected prior to installation to ensure that no blending is required. If you see a particular pebble on the tile that is not to your liking, simply remove it from the mesh backing and replace with a pebble from one of your extra tiles.
Apply thin set mortar to desired area with notched trowel. (no more than 3 SF at one time)
Place tiles on mortar in interlocking pattern. At this point you can help the interlocking pattern hide the seams. Simply remove any pebble on the edge of the tile that may be placed incorrectly and move into desired place. Lightly tap the tile down; be sure all pebbles are in contact with the thin set.
Seal the tiles with the stone sealer. Color and shine enhancers can also be applied at this time, if required or desired.
Allow sealer to dry completely. (usually overnight)
Apply a sanded grout on small sections at a time until entire area is covered. Thoroughly pack the grout into all of the gaps.
Pull rubber float across the top of the pebble to remove the majority of the grout.
Sponge off grout until desired look is reached.
When grout completely dries (see grout instructions) seal the tile a final time. If dirty, clean tile before sealing.
TN_Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-10-2008, 09:27 PM   #3
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 93,225
Welcome, Chris.

Your floor joists are a bit shy of meeting the necessary L/720 deflection requirements for an installation like that. You'll need to address that problem first.

Then, with that thin subfloor to start with I'd not want anything short of another 5/8ths layer on top of it, installed per these guidelines to the extent possible.

But if you've got known movement (squeeks) in the existing subfloor you really need to at least re-fasten all of that before adding the second layer. If the movement is widespread, you might wanna consider removing the existing subflooring and starting over, properly gluing and fastening to the joists. If you hafta go to that length, though, I'd certainly start over with a layer of 3/4" T&G subflooring instead of that wimpy stuff. Then you could add only half-inch for your second layer (technically 3/8ths would be adequate).

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-11-2008, 12:58 PM   #4
TN_Chris
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5
Thanks for the reply, CX.

I'm going to ask a follow up question concerning the joist spacing. I assume that the L/720 maximum deflection for stone tile installation is because of the rigidity of stone (to prevent cracking). The micro pebble product that I'm considering is made up of small pebbles (probably 3/8 to 1/2 inch maximum dimension) glued to a webbed backing. Given the small dimensions of the pebbles, would it be less subject to cracking, thereby requiring a slightly less stringent maximum deflection?

The reason I ask is that the bathroom straddles the center beam of the house, so I'll have to add joists across the full width of the house (12 feet in both directions from the center beam). To make things even more fun, my garage under the bathroom has finished drywall on the ceiling (required by the fire code in TN). So I'll have to tear down all the dry wall and replace it after sistering the joists. Some of the drywall will have to come down anyway, but a lot more will need to come down if I need to sister all the joists.

I'll do it if that is what is required to get it right. But I don't want to do what isn't necessary. Thanks for your patience.
TN_Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-11-2008, 02:31 PM   #5
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 93,225
I treated your installation as natural stone without even questioning the make-up of the little-bitty pieces, Chris, because you'll essentially be installing a thin layer of grout on your floor and calling it tiled, eh?

If you wanna call it ceramic tile instead of natural stone and install it over what you've got and call it good, I can understand that. I was just quoting the MIA requirement for a stone installation.

Keep in mind that with a beam in the center with long joists going both ways from it, you may have a substantially worse situation for movement in that bathroom floor than if it were in the center of the span of the undersized joists because of the levering effect at the joist ends. Tough to say how bad that situation might be without seeing how the joists are overlapped and fastened.

The second layer of plywood I wouldn't compromise on at all, no matter what you're fixin' to call them little pebbles. I'd want as much plywood there as I could possibly find vertical space for.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2008, 10:31 PM   #6
TN_Chris
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5
I tore up some more of the old subfloor today. The joists overlap 4" directly over the top of the center beam. The joists seem really solid; all the flex and movement is in the plywood. I going to rip up all the plywood and lay down 1" x 4" T&G with screws and glue, then cover with 1/2" of plywood and call it good.
TN_Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2008, 10:35 PM   #7
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 93,225
I would recommend you use 3/4" T&G plywood as your first layer in lieu of the boards, Chris.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2008, 10:37 PM   #8
TN_Chris
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5
Whoops. I guess I misinterpreted you. My bad. Thanks for the correction and will follow your advice.
TN_Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:54 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC