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Unread 04-20-2021, 01:52 PM   #1
Oklacarcollector
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Problem with Hardiebacker board and shower pan installation

I watched the factory video for installing Hardiebacker board correctly on the walls (floor to ceiling) and it shows it going all the way to the piece that is on the floor. I did that and my shower pan fits nicely.

Upon watching additional videos, it is showing that the shower pan is installed first and Hardiebacker board comes down to almost the top of the lip of the pan and is caulked between the gap for the seal.

I live in a doublewide mobile home and the floor is solid and I installed Hardiebacker board correctly so no issues in that area. My outside walls are vinyl siding but under the siding is styrofoam that is maybe a 1/4" thick so that is a problem in itself. I wish I had known when I bought this place but that is water under the bridge from over 20 years ago.

Tearing out what I have already done and mounting the shower pan to the studs doesn't seem to be like a good idea considering the exterior wall covering. I removed all the drywall from all of the walls and pulled out what felt like 10,000 staples from all of the studs.

In my original plan, I planned on adding another 1/4" on top of the .42" (with a thin layer of thinset between the Hardiebacker board) that I already have on the studs and it would be a nice flat surface for the tile. I have the correct 2 1/4" screws made for Hardiebacker board for the entire thickness. Reading the replies by the James Hardie Company on the Lowes website says that you can't overlay Hardiebacker board with a second Hardiebacker. There will be absolutely no issue with my Moen shower faucet as there is plenty of clearance for the depth.

Now the question for the professionals..... would you do as I have planed, rip it all out and start over or do something totally different that I haven't thought of?
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Unread 04-20-2021, 02:20 PM   #2
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Welcome, Bill,

Some photos of what you have would help, but if I understand the situation correctly, you installed the Hardie to the walls all the way down to the floor, and then installed the shower pan so that its perimeter is against the Hardie.

If that's correct, any moisture that makes it through the tile and grout (tile, and most grouts, are not water proof) will run down the face of the Hardie and could seep into the gap where the pan and Hardie meet, then make its way to the floor.

Also, if the pan has a flange it is now sticking out past the face of the Hardie, so the bottom row of tile can't sit flat on the Hardie. Also, if the pan was not set in mortar, and you didn't attach it to the studs, there's really nothing holding it in place except the drain assembly.
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Unread 04-20-2021, 02:51 PM   #3
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"Dan,

Thank you!

The pan isn't set. I stopped when I realized that I had a problem. I have sealed the floor with MAPEI Mapelastic Aquadefense. Until I have figured out what to do I haven't brought it up to where it will be where the 1/4" would be installed. The side walls are 36" deep so the pan has no depth problem. I haven't fully taped and bedded the sidewalls yet as I realized that I had a problem and was smart enough to stop.

Ignore the offset drain cap because it has to be moved because of changing the 2x3 wall to a 2x4. All of the sewer plumbing in that area will be moved because we are also adding another fixture.


I will try to add pictures to this comment using my phone.

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Last edited by Oklacarcollector; 04-21-2021 at 01:12 PM.
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Unread 04-20-2021, 03:24 PM   #4
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The flange sticks up in the air on three sides of the pan and the tile goes down on the inside of it.

I am using this grout, Ultracolor Plus FA with DropEffectâ„¢. DropEffect reduces surface absorption to help repel water, dirt and grime from penetrating grout joints.
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Unread 04-21-2021, 10:55 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill
where the 1/4" would be installed.
What's the 1/4", Bill?

Aside from the difficulty of tiling over that flange, the flange is part of the water containment system. You want any water that runs down the drainage plane, in this case your Hardie backer, to drain onto/into, the pan, with no opportunity to get in behind it.
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Unread 04-21-2021, 11:43 AM   #6
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UPDATE:
I am at a dead end and don't have any idea of what to do so on the advice of a local installer who says that he often stacks it in order to get a true 1/2", I have called the James Hardie tech support and am waiting for a return call from them.
The phone message says that they return calls by the end of the day. I will update the thread when I get more information.
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Unread 04-21-2021, 11:52 AM   #7
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Dan,

From multiple sources across the internet the 1/4" is supposed to be 1/4" above the top lip of the shower pan and a bead of caulking is to fill the gap.
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Unread 04-21-2021, 12:00 PM   #8
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Dan,
Here is a photo of where the hardieboard has the gap between the shower pan and the hardie board. This looks like a possible penetration point for water to get in and behind the pan even with it caulked should it fail. The tile comes down -1/4 inch which is caulked to the flat lip on my pan.
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Unread 04-21-2021, 12:07 PM   #9
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Here you can see where the pan is spaced out 1/4" with what looks to ne hardiebacker so when the .42" hardiebacker is installed that it would be near a flat transition to tile over whole going in to the shower pan.
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Unread 04-21-2021, 12:18 PM   #10
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you should be waterproofing all the hardiboard. What do you plan to use for that?? I would use something like kerdiband accross that section and use kerdifix to bond it to the flange and mortar on the hardi. I would then redgard the entire wall and overlap the kerdi band.

just what I would do.
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Unread 04-21-2021, 12:54 PM   #11
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Mike,
I planned on sealing everything with two coats (as recommended) with MAPEI Mapelastic Aquadefense.

My original question is that I have already installed .42 Hardieboard and the shower pan fits nicely in the test fit. I have no issue using Kerdiband across that section and use Kerdifix to bond it to the flange. Thank you for that advice.

The unanswered question is that I need the other 1/4" of Hardieboard to make the transition smooth with the inner edge of the pan so it can be tiled like it is supposed to be so the original question is can 1/4" Hardieboard be installed over the .42 Hardieboard? If not I will disassemble it and do it the other way.

I have built 4 hour fire walls (which is why the logic works with stacking the Hardieboard in my mind since there would be no overlapping seams) as well lots of other commercial construction jobs using all kinds of materials but I am out of my league here. This was always done by the subs so I was never involved. Sadly most of the subs that I have dealt with have passed on or left the area and I don't know any of they younger crews. I could go locate someone and have them do it but my wife's health is extremely poor so we only let essential people in our home.
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Unread 04-21-2021, 01:13 PM   #12
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The best way would be to shim the studs out 1/4".

But I can't find anything wrong with what you're planning. Just make sure you use long enough screws to go into the studs about an inch. So probably minimum 2" screws.
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Unread 04-21-2021, 03:44 PM   #13
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Kevin,
LOWES carries

Backer-On Rock-On Cement Board Screw #9x2-1/4in, 100 pk
Item #3414520 Model #23520.

Power Pro #9 x 2-1/4-in Ceramic Star-Drive Cement Board Screws (100-Count)
Item # 1147933 Model # 48892.

We don't have a Home Depot and lowes doesn't stock them locally. I have both of them because I ordered two packages online from Lowes and they never shipped after 6 days so I went to Tulsa and bought two other packages at Lowes. The next day, they shipped and they arrived today so I have plenty now.

Backer-On Rock-On is the top picture and Power Pro is the second picture. I haven't tried them nut the Power Pro design looks like they would be the better screws.
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Unread 04-22-2021, 01:08 AM   #14
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Here's the deal with Hardibacker. It gets very brittle, especially near the edges, when you drive a nail or screw into it. So you want the screw head to set fully and hold, but the larger head screws will cause more breakages.

I gotta be honest with you, I used to use Hardibacker all the time, but it has enough disadvantages that I stopped years ago.

The wall board is less than 1/2" for some reason, which causes problems when it joins up to 1/2" sheetrock. It's dry as a stone, which can cause bonding issues if it's not thoroughly dampened immediately before applying mortar. And you can't bury it in the mud bed of a shower, so you can't really fasten the lower few inches like it needs to be without puncturing the liner below the curb.

I prefer one of the true cement boards for a shower, like Durock, Permabase, or Wonderboard.
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