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Unread 04-16-2020, 10:01 PM   #16
JSrenovations
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CS >> You'll need to explain that for me, JS. The OP has square-edge plywood as his first layer. How is your joist sistering going to correct that deficiency?

Please forgive the lack of a "proper quote". I tried but did not figure it out.

Sorry that I was not more clear. My suggestion is entirely remove all the existing subfloor, then add sisters and blocking from above (easy access). This will reinforce and strengthen the joists so that they can not flex. Then, a single really good piece of new subfloor like Advantech or similar. 5/8 or 3/4 (if it won't cause a height issue).

We did exactly this in that small bath those years ago, and the floor was rock solid. The tiles were a soft natural stone - only 3/8" thick. There have been no cracks and it's been many years now.

I wish that we had a better lippage system at the time. We used the home depot brand and back then there was no tool available. But, we are very glad that we used it, despite the bruised thumbs. The finished job was flawless.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 03:29 PM   #17
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All, just getting back to the floor now. Got most of the screws out of the underlayment, it starts to come up a little edges with some prying but seems stuck beyond that. Going to chisel/multitool away thinset to reveal any hidden screws i missed.

Assuming it is glued to the subfloor (and I want to try to avoid removing subfloor), any tricks to avoiding extensive damage to subfloor? I'm worried less about being able to pry it up, have seen guys use blocks driven under if needed. just worried I"m going to rip up too much of subfloor / ruin integrity of it.

Or is there something I can use to correct damage to the subfloor after the fact?

Thanks
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Unread 05-07-2020, 04:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS
Please forgive the lack of a "proper quote". I tried but did not figure it out.
JS, look in the FAQ or the Liberry for a very brief tutorial on how to post and properly attribute quotes here on the forums. It really is very simple once you see it.
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Unread 05-08-2020, 08:18 AM   #19
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I think it's unlikely that it is glued down with a full spread of adhesive. More likely it will be lines of construction adhesive - if any.

You may simply have to get serious with it, serious like a 3' crow bar. Get under an edge with a small pry bar, lift if, get a longer pry/crow bar under it, lever it, move smaller pry bar over, jam blocks under raised sections, etc-etc. might come up in large sections, it might come up in small pieces. If DW screws are still in it the heads might just pop off, or the ply will come apart around the head.
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Unread 05-08-2020, 04:32 PM   #20
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Thanks Dan.

My concern though is really w/ avoiding damage to subfloor, especially seeing that previous tile floor had cracking issues (per this thread CX is guessing cracking was likely not caused by deflection).

1) Should I be concerned about damaging subfloor? I'm guessing there's no way to make pulling up glued underlayment a delicate process, as such....
2) Should i try to address any damage to subfloor after the fact?
3) If so, how?

Thanks
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Unread 05-08-2020, 11:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John
(per this thread CX is guessing cracking was likely not caused by deflection).
I believe CX opined that the problem was not joist deflection, John.

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. Replace it if it's damaged to the point that it's not sufficient for a ceramic tile installation.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 05-09-2020, 07:41 PM   #22
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Thanks CX. Point noted on the joist deflection.
Underlayment coming up fine, minimal damage to subfloor so far.
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Unread 03-10-2021, 01:59 PM   #23
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Floor squeaking after porcelain/ditra mat install

Hi All,

Remodeling my bathroom. Demo’d old ceramic tile floor which had been installed directly on 11/32? plywood underlayment over 3/4? plywood subfloor, subfloor is proper face grade (some of the tiles in the main field were cracked, where foot traffic heaviest.) I pulled up the plywood underlayment. There was probably 3 or 4 spots where the floor squeaked (small bath ~45 sf), I screwed down subfloor into joist and eliminated all the squeaks, though this took a while as eliminating one squeak sometimes seemed to spring another mini one elsewhere. I just had a tile contractor install 6? x 38? porcelain wood look tiles on Ditra Mat on the floor about 2 weeks ago, and after about a week my floor which was quiet as could be…is now squeaking and squawking. Most of the squeaks seem to be coming from the corner of the alcove wall (alcove tub/shower) next to the tub apron. Fyi I had run the deflecto calc and floor is rated for porcelain.

My question – would improper ditra mat installation cause this? I understand you need to fully fill the waffles and use proper thinset etc. Or is it likely that something else caused this, perhaps the weight of the new tiles?

I’m considering trying to fix the squeaks from below (unfinished basement below), as Ive done this sucessffully in the past (sister blocking to joist up against subfloor), but I wonder if rather than fix the squeaking it might intensify the issue, cause cracking etc?
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Unread 03-10-2021, 02:04 PM   #24
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are you 100% there was a gap at the tile/tub apron and with the ditra and its not squeeking from the edge rubbing the tub apron?
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Unread 03-10-2021, 03:17 PM   #25
whatmemory?
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Yep there was a gap there, and while most of the squeaking seems to be coming from the area, it 1) isnt the only place thats squeaking and 2) the sound doesnt seem to be coming right from where tile/apron meet.

Frankly to me it sounds like subfloor is squeaking. Wouldnt have raised an eyebrow were it not for the fact that it was quiet for a month until tile was installed, then a week later....
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Unread 03-10-2021, 04:59 PM   #26
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you sure you entered in the correct "span"? Span is not the room size. It is determined by going to the floor UNDER the room and seeing how long the ceiling joists are down there before they hit a supporting wall.

How were the plywood sheets oriented? Was the grain on the first payer perpendicular to the joists?

Many things can contribute to squeeks, but it means there is some movement there. Since have access to the joists from below, You can have someone make it squeak from above, find the spot, and screw in a cleat in that area to further support it.

If you sister boards, I would also add construction adhesive to the top of the sistering board to tie in the plywood. It would not cause any problems to sister the joists
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Unread 03-10-2021, 05:24 PM   #27
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John, this is a floor you started working on a year ago and about which we have history?
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Unread 03-10-2021, 05:39 PM   #28
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I had a similar issue with a squeak after installing floor next to a fiberglass tub. After looking into the problem a bit I found the squeaking was caused by thinset between the tile and the tub. Cleaned out the thinset and no squeaking.
Deflections were well within tolerance but it doesn’t take much for those tub to really make a racket. The squeak can also be coming from rubbing between the tub and subfloor. Is the tub bedded in mortar so it’s fully supported?
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Unread 03-10-2021, 06:01 PM   #29
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How far apart are the screws you put in? I think if my floor was that noisy, I'd have screwed it down just as if there were no other fasteners in it, i.e. every 6-8 inches.
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Unread 03-10-2021, 06:45 PM   #30
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Thanks all, appreciated. Contractor grouted the bottom of apron at tile line, I'll clean that out and check for thinset against apron, will remove any if found and just apply silicone. Will also add cleat(s) and/or sister blocking and will use construction adhesive, definitely had luck with that before.

CX - yes started this project a while back and had to table it. Couldn't find my old thread, apologies.

To answer the other questions - the plywood was installed with grain perpendicular to joists. I dont recall face grade but it is good enough per specs listed on this site. I made sure screws were no more than 6" apart at edges, 8" apart in field sometimes less.
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