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Old 06-08-2018, 08:02 PM   #16
smifwal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB
he's got fixed screeds all the way around.
you have to remove these right? Prior to filing I mean. Also simce you .mentioned it when is the great state of Texas going to host another mud festival? Long over do I tell ya
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Old 06-09-2018, 08:35 AM   #17
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Shawn, I think they stay in. No reason to remove them.
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:40 AM   #18
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I leave mine in place. They're probably 3/16" thick and are easily covered by the waterproof membrane.
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:34 AM   #19
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Well shit howdy. That would make pouring a pan so much easier. I always thought like with the screed sticks for walls and mud floors you had to remove them. So when I pour a pan I make the premier first then around the drain then screed between them. But I always manage to cut in to the perimeter ever so slightly and have to build it back up
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:38 AM   #20
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K Man is on spot. No reason to pull them I can see.
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:53 AM   #21
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Thats a pretty interesting method. I thought about doing this once a couple years ago but I was worried that it might fail and I didn't want to experiment on a customers house. Has anybody done this method with the shower pan liner under the mud?
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Old 06-09-2018, 12:15 PM   #22
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Wonder if Laticrete has done testing on this method? If it works and can provide the psi and longevity that would be great.
What I am finding lately doing repairs is at around year 2, the problems in tilework begin to rear its ugly head. Cracking, de bonding, and leaking.
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Old 06-09-2018, 01:25 PM   #23
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Karl...I see no reason why it wouldn't work. Add the proper amount amount of water and any extra will find it's way to the weep holes, eh?

More than once, doing a standard drypack...I find the next day it to be crumbly...more so than you would expect. Even a shop vac tends to pull it up. This is with a proper ratio mix and enough water for the "snowball" test.

With this method...well, I won't say it's like concrete, but cleaning it up the next day with a rubstone shows me that it's quite hard!

Someone might want to frame out a 1 sq. ft. box and dump in some 3701 or 4 to 1, add the water, give it a day or two and bust it out to see how solid it gets. Remember, just mist it up until the surface starts to get slick, then smooth trowel it, if you like.
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Old 06-09-2018, 01:46 PM   #24
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Like everything else, what we really need is one of them thar offishal tests to be done on the method like this. Doubt they do a Robinson type test on mud beds, but someone ought to be able to tell the compressive strength of that method.

I think the concept is solid as long as you get enough water to make it equally into all parts of the mud bed. But having no way of knowing looking from the topside, it’s just a guess. When using the bucket mortar mixer or similar, you know going in from the start that everything is the same moisture content +/-.

Just using guess/logic I would think it is possible that if you were to bust up the mud bed in different areas throughout you might find different compressive ratios. Maybe all good enough, but I’m sure there would be differential water absorption in different areas. I guess my biggest fear would be that if the method of applying water was just slightly off, You might create a saturated layer on top and somewhat of a moisture packed layer in the middle with just powdered mix below in some areas. Who knows? Never tried it but think somebody should test it
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Old 06-09-2018, 01:52 PM   #25
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Kevin....You are correct, but if a bag calls for 3/4 gallon or 1 gallon and you use that, and then begin to see a slick surface, you're good to go. The bagged mixes are pretty well thoroughly mixed...and as long as there is proper hydration, the bed should be tight.
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Old 06-09-2018, 02:34 PM   #26
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If you're going to cover the mud with Kerdi or some other membrane then it's not a big deal if you over water the mud. But in a traditional liner mud bed, the last thing I want is my mud to be as hard and dense as concrete.
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Old 06-09-2018, 05:24 PM   #27
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You could do a compressive strength test, but then again, there is no standard for compressive strength of mortar in tile work. In general, from some testing I did years back for showers, less than 1,200-1500 PSI was trouble. If you beat on sand and cement you can get into the 3,200- 3,500 range. Add latex and you can hit 3,500 to 4,500. That was about 50 tests over a one year period. Those were samples cut from actual showers. The value shown for bag mix is a lab test value that typically doesn't occur in the real world. It would scare me too much to try that method on a shower. I have done it on big jobs with a garden hose. several were historic restorations in exterior freeze thaw of WI and still in service 30+ years later. It is all about technique.

I should add that this was right at the start of membrane mania using traditional pan liner.
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Old 06-09-2018, 07:14 PM   #28
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I guess there is no shrinkage -- powder to solid state -- ..... and those mfg recommendations ..... well hidden in the waste container .

I will start using the dry powder from Laticrete to place tiles over and then just go with the garden hose over ..... should also compensate for the floor irregularities , fast and effective.
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Old 06-11-2018, 05:41 PM   #29
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FWIW 3701 is very course and allows the water to penetrate VERY easily compared to 4 to 1 which is a bit finer. 4 to 1 is my standard mix for shower floors.

IF you are in doubt about how well the water saturated, add more water the next day as it will sink right in like watering a dry sidewalk.

FWIW 2 - when working without the 'help' of 6 or 7 other pro's in a tiny bathroom, a 4x4 shower pan takes less than an hour which included everything from setting the perimeter ledgers, pouring the drypack, and watering. There is no mixing of drypack, no waste. The video itself is 20 minutes, which includes everything except setting the perimeter. So more like 40 minutes.

Watch this video
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:55 AM   #30
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