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Unread 08-07-2019, 08:38 PM   #1
JoeDubya
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Have I made a mistake

I've scoured youtube for the answer, but I cannot seem to find it. I have a basement shower that I am building. I have poured the preslope on the cement floor, and installed the Oatey PVC membrane and 3 piece drain. So far so good right?

My question is around the walls. I have installed Kerdi board from the ceiling to half way down the walls. I did not go all the way with the walls because I wanted to install the liner first. I would like to use Kerdi board on the walls, but not the floor. Can I use Kerdi board next on the walls bring it down to the membrane? After the Kerdi goes in, I would pour the final slope for the shower floor and tile over top.

I like the Kerdi product for my walls because of the pre-fab niche, and lightweight materials and smaller board sizes that are available. I really don't see any videos of people installing Kerdi boarded wall with an Oatey membrane. Are the two incompatible for some reason?

If this is possible, how do you seal the joints between the kerdi wall and the final mud slope? Thinset like on Kerdi walls?
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Unread 08-07-2019, 08:59 PM   #2
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In this case, you wouldn't seal the Kerdiboard to the liner. You do want to seal the seams between the boards and the anchor (screw) holes on the walls, though.

One of the major benefits of a surface membrane shower is that it is entirely waterproof, and almost nothing to absorb and hold moisture. When you have a mudbed, by design, it will become damp and essentially stay that way. Each shower will add a little moisture to the setting bed beneath the tile and weep to the drain, constantly flushing the system.

In a surface applied waterproofing, the thinset is denser than the mudbed, and it is a thin layer beneath the tile. Essentially, what may get through the grout isn't drawn down into the mudbed, and generally, dries out in between showers.

You could pull the liner, then change the drain to a Kerdi conversion drain (or tear it out and replace with a standard Kerdi drain), but what you have will work as you planned. Run the Kerdiboard down to within about 1/4" from the top of the liner on the floor, then pack your mud to make your setting bed as if those panels were cbu.
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Unread 08-07-2019, 11:24 PM   #3
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Kerdi/KerdiBoard is meant as an all or nothing system. Yeah, you could do a hybrid of surface waterproofing and a traditional pan liner as Jim says. But you’d be forgoing one of the main benefits of surface waterproofing.

So, did you make a mistake? Well...you’re learning. And you’re doing it before blindly plowing forward. So, good on you. Now it’s time to decide what benefits you want to obtain so that you can either make a hybrid and know what benefit you’re foregoing or swap out the lower stuff to complete the whole Kerdi system.

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Unread 08-08-2019, 07:02 AM   #4
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In general you are fine..I am not speaking for Schluter or Oatey , however the basic method you are describing is and has been in the Tile Council of America Handbook since the 80s.
As the original Manufacturer of both type of membranes we would warrant it and have for over 25 years. Mortar bed showers floors as you are talking was the only way before the 80s and they hold up just fine. Noble Co. introduced our Chloraloy in 1964.Millions of showers are still in service and are both functioning and look just fine!
We also have more Niche options then anyone!
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Unread 08-08-2019, 01:48 PM   #5
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Thank you for the replies. I am curious about securing the bottom few inches of overlap of kerdi and liner. Obviously i dont want to perforate the liner, so can I safely assume that 6 inches should be the last kerdi fastener from the bottom, and that the final mortar bed slope will apply enough pressure to keep the kerdi pushed against the membrane and wall?
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Unread 08-08-2019, 02:26 PM   #6
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Joe, you can't have any mechanical fasteners through your waterproof liner lower than two inches above the top of your curb.

Yes, the final mud bed would capture the bottom of your wallboard.
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Unread 08-09-2019, 02:30 PM   #7
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Thanks CX. Follow up. In this hybrid configuration what ddo I install in lieue of corner dams on my curb? I see Kerdi makes a product, but so does Oatey. Given that the dam curb is where my kerdi walls meet my membrane curb, what product should i use for a dam? And what adhesive as well....
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Unread 08-09-2019, 03:16 PM   #8
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If I correctly understand your construction, the only thing different from a conventional shower with traditional receptor and impervious wallboard is that you're using KerdiBoard as your wallboard. An overly expensive choice of wall waterproofing in that application in my opinion, but workable.

Given that, you still must make a traditional curb, with either wood framing or CMUs as the core, your liner covering that core, compatible dam corners at the ends of the curb, and lath and mud over that. Same construction you'd use if you had used a moisture barrier behind CBU or mud walls or a direct bonded waterproofing membrane over CBU walls.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 08-09-2019, 04:38 PM   #9
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Got it. Already covered the wood curb with pan liner. OATEY says to use x-15 for dam corners. I expect it may not adhere to kerdi, so that seam will likely need kerdi tape and thinset.
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Unread 08-09-2019, 04:42 PM   #10
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Joe, the way you're building your shower you would not need to bond your dam corners to anything other than themselves and the pan liner. You would have done that before installing the wallboard of whatever type you elected to use.
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Unread 08-09-2019, 05:27 PM   #11
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You've clarified it. Install the dam corners before the wall material like this guy does (only with a diff product)?
https://youtu.be/GSTXRWfUfrw

Thats the layering youre describing I think? Dam corners to complete the pan base in a way....then apply walls?
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Unread 08-09-2019, 05:35 PM   #12
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Yeah, and then you can tell people you learnt it all from Michael Byrne!

That's likely a better installation than you'll have with only Oatey PVC liner and dam corners because of the Noble Company pookey used in that video and the installation of the extra flap of liner material over the dam corners and onto the stud. Your X-15 will bond only PVC to PVC, but if you do a very neat job you can get by with that.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 08-10-2019, 05:52 AM   #13
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Thank you so much...can't find those precut corner pieces at lowes or home depot here in Canada. Ill head to a specialty plumbing when they open again on Monday.

You're a live saver.
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Unread 08-10-2019, 06:24 AM   #14
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If you'll put that geographic location into your User Profile it'll be helpful in answering other types of questions, too. If you don't, the information will be lost before we leave this page.

You might look online to see if you can't order those dam corners directly from the Noble Company, the company that produced the video you linked. Might be able to order their pan liner, too, and maybe even that pookey they used in the video.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 08-10-2019, 09:09 AM   #15
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All those layers of material will cause the Kerdi board to bulge out on the lower section of the jamb. In that situation I would notch the wood for the dam corners and for the folds in the shower corners. That will allow the Kerdi board to hang straight down.

If you haven't, check out the Shower construction info thread in the liberry.
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