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Unread 10-26-2014, 01:28 PM   #1
boaty
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starting a bathroom remodel (jeffs bathroom)

hello,

I am starting a bathroom remodel with tile shower and partial tile walls and I wanted to do a "penny floor" with epoxy coat for the bath floor (pepple tile in shower). I am going to have a few questions I am sure!

Right now I am framing in shower and putting in new support for floor joists. I did not read this sooner and have already installed 1 layer of C/D 3/4 ply. I added support under my bath so I will have 2x8 floor joists with only a span of 6.5 ft on 16" centers.

1. Do you think I just skip using CBU on bath floor and put another layer of B grade plywood (bath only as I am building mud pan in shower) being careful to overlap joints properly since I have the C/D down now?

2. where do I find out if I should use at least 6mil plastic sheeting on shower walls behind CBU or not? (I could buy DuRock, wonderboard or Hardie CBUs)

3. I bought a frameless glass shower door and need to be careful to rough frame the opening correctly (I will have no side glass but a corner entry). The door with hinge is 28 3/8" wide. The hinge mounts on the surface of tile (my tile is 1/4 inch thick 2x4 subway) How much gap do you recommend for the door when finished? I was thinking 3/16 but the instructions don't say.

4. if using 1/2" CBU (or 7/16 hardie) and the 1/4 inch tile how thick do you think the thinset should be to set the tile? I was planning on using 1/4" notched trowel but am not sure what the actual finished mortar thickness would be to plan on the correct rough frame dimension for the door.

5. my shower is aprox. 48x44 with corner entry do you think double CD 3/4" would be ok for shower pan or should I get higher grade for second layer on this small area?

This is the first of my questions right now.
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Unread 10-26-2014, 04:44 PM   #2
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#1~CBU should always be used over plywood. Bed it in morter before tiling. Embed alkali resistant tape over the seems before tiling.

#2~With ANY of those products, and doing a "conventional" shower with preslope, liner, final slope and tile...yes, you need the plastic barrier attached to the studs. Plastic or 15 lb tarpaper is fine.

#3~No idea

#4~Depends on the size of the tile. 1/4 trowel will probably compress to about 1/8" when all is said & done.

#5~A little confused here. Is the plywood for structure and the mudbed(s) over it? If so, probably OK. On top of that, you still need a "cleavage" membrane like plastic liner or tarpaper. Wire lathe and a preslope mud bed on that....liner on top of THAT and a final mud bed to tile onto.

Alternatively, You could just put drywall onto the bare studs, do ONE mudbed and Kerdi everything and tile away. That's how I do it.....
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Unread 10-26-2014, 04:48 PM   #3
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Welcome, Jeff.

You do understand that the joist span that is of concern for tile floors has nothing at all to do with the size of the room above, but is a measurement of the unsupported span of the joists, yes?

And maybe I'm extra dense today, but I gotta start most of your questions with "I don't fully understand the question, but............"

1. I would not recommend you skip a CBU or tiling membrane, but I would advocate adding the second layer of nominal half-inch plywood over the CD material you now have. But that would apply only if you have adequately blocked the seams of the CD material, which I'm guessing were not T&G.

2. Mmmmm, well............. I dunno. I can tell you only that you must use either a moisture barrier behind the CBU walls or a directed bonded waterproofing membrane over the inside of the CBU.

3. I don't wanna guess just what you mean by "corner entry" here. And the gap I think you mean would depend upon how your door is meant to seal at the edge. I can say that building the tiled door opening is a whole lot more difficult than having a door made for a finished opening.

4. Only thing I can tell you here is that the tile industry standard is a minimum mortar thickness of 3/32nds of an inch after the tile is set. If thickness is gonna be a critical issue, make a mockup with your CBU and your mortar and your tile and your trowel and your technique and measure the result.

5. Two layers of the wrong grade of plywood won't make the top layer any better suited to the application. You can probably make a successful traditional shower pan over your single layer of 3/4" CD plywood subflooring (again, if the between-joist edges are blocked), but adding another layer of half-inch plywood of a proper type wouldn't hurt at all.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-27-2014, 07:30 AM   #4
boaty
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thanks for the help guys!

1. If I go with the second layer of high grade plywood over the 3/4 CD that I did block is there something inferior with using 1/4" CBU instead of half inch to not get too much height (although the penny floor would be pretty thin)?

My joists were 16" on center but the span was a few inches longer than it should have been for 2x8 that they installed in 1937 (and springy). I have sistered new joists to the old ones as they were in poor condition and also had failed on a rotten sill I also have replaced. because I am using tile I am running a post and beam support mid way in the span so no more "spring" (so the span will now be only 6.5 to 7 feet)

I guess I am doing the conventional mud pan and CBU instead of the kerdi/redgard coatings as I have already bought a conventional drain with weep holes mail order as well as the mud and membrane for pan.

when I said "corner entry" I just meant that the shower door opening is at a 45 degree angle on one corner with adequate width for the proper door opening. The 3/8 glass door I bought has a bottom sweep that I attach but I am not intending to use any plastic trim for the vertical edges so the opening has to be finished to the right size for the door (I didn't even consider making it first and then ordering the door which probably would have been the better plan than having to finish it precisely. Your estimates on mortar thickness will give me enough info to frame
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Last edited by boaty; 10-27-2014 at 07:37 AM.
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Unread 10-27-2014, 07:50 AM   #5
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Follow the manufacturer's recommendations for the CBU you choose to use for your floor, Jeff. All of them with which I'm familiar recommend their thinner panels for that application.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Unread 10-27-2014, 07:53 AM   #6
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Rich, since your measurements are going to be crucial, I would recommend you make a mockup piece to determine the thickness of the tile/thinset/CBU composition.

The trowel size is typically determined by the tile size. If your tile are 3x6, you could use a 1/4" square notch trowel.
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Unread 11-01-2014, 04:41 AM   #7
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I am almost done rough framing in a tile shower and I have a question on the shower door and ceiling height.

My shower is going to be 44" x 46" minus a diagonal on one corner for my glass door. I am tiling the whole thing including ceiling. not counting thickness of mud pan the height from floor to ceiling joist is 8' 4" (I know this will be reduced by at least 2.5" with traditional mud pan with liner and CBU and tile on ceiling). I think my curb will be 4 2x4's (unless people think 3"curb meausred on inside is enough?) plus metal lath and mortar and then 1/4" tile and my door is 6'6" tall.

This bath is not heated. in an old farm house without much insulation and wood heat not near this bathroom. I don't think I will bother with a electric heater either as we haven't ever used one.

1) Do You think it is a good idea to frame the opening for shower door to enclose the door completely so there is no open area between the top of the door and the ceiling (hold steam and heat in shower?) or leave some kind of a gap?



thanks for advice on this

Jeff
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Unread 11-01-2014, 06:16 AM   #8
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I usually find three 2x4' s to be plenty high for the curb.

As for the shower door opening I'd rather leave a little opening at the top and have an exhaust fan just outside to draw excess moisture out of the room.
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Unread 11-01-2014, 03:25 PM   #9
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I've seen custom shower doors with transoms above the doors...you can tilt it to open.
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Unread 11-04-2014, 08:02 PM   #10
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question on extra low faucet in non-tub shower

I want to have a regular shower head and then also have a quick disconnect down near the floor to be able to hook up a hand held nozzle to wash dogs occasionally.

If I use a normal Shower/Tub valve (4 way) is the shower arm always under pressure? (I bought a Kohler shower/tub set but have not installed yet and I am not using the tub spigot where you normally lift the knob to activate the shower)?? I need to understand this to get it right (I wanted both under pressure all the time and I was going to have a on/off button before the shower head if I only want the hand held down low)

I wanted to use a "quick disconnect" for the stub out down low, is it OK to use air fittings for this (since they are sealed when disconnected) Or do you think I should use a 1/4 turn valve?
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Unread 11-04-2014, 08:21 PM   #11
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Jeff,

What does Mrs Jeff want ? Besides another 1/4 turn valve

They do make diverters which have multiple outputs.
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Unread 11-04-2014, 10:42 PM   #12
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If you look you can find "quick disconnect" hand showers on the web. Info seems a little weak.

Air fittings seem a little industrial for a home shower. Some of the steel plated ones I have used rusted badly which is why mine are mostly brass. I don't expect you will find brushed nickel.
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Unread 11-05-2014, 02:34 AM   #13
boaty
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the diverters I see go way up at the shower head. If I did install a separate knob to divert (if I can find one) I know it would be in the wall too which I really don't want. so I would rather just have the main shower valve as the control and the outlet down near the floor and if I don't want the shower to work I push a button valve before the shower head.

I found stainless couplers for the quick disconnect (I only need a hose line for dog bathing or some other odd washing) I detest seeing the flex lines on some of the combo shower units hanging on the wall

So, does a standard shower/tub valve distribute water pressure both up and down at the same time?? I am not certain on this aspect of how the tub spigot "knob" activates the water in shower head?? I am not using the tub spigot since this is a tile shower I am building. I just want to know if I have to return the shower/tub unit for a shower only faucet set and use a tee or not??
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Last edited by boaty; 11-05-2014 at 02:45 AM.
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Unread 11-05-2014, 04:26 AM   #14
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The tub spout can be capped off inside the wall.
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Unread 11-05-2014, 10:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
I am not certain on this aspect of how the tub spigot "knob" activates the water in shower head??
Jeff, the standard "diverter" in the tub spout generally does nothing at all except to close of that spout, forcing the water to go elsewhere, which is usually up to a shower head. If you hold your hand over the tub spout, you can make the shower come on without closing that valve. Gravity is the controlling force.

Your quick-disconnect coupling would work only to the extent that it did not provide enough restriction to force some water as high as the shower head. And, of course, if you use a dog-washing fixture at the end of that hose that you can shut off, you'll provide for a shower for both you and Fido every time you activate it.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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