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Unread 01-30-2006, 07:27 PM   #1
Levi the Tile Guy
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Another expansion joint?

I just got a 220o sf. floor over slab. The homeowners told me that they were told the slab was something new that didn't need joints, and they don't want me to make any in the tile.
I have never heard of slab that doesn't need joints, does anybody know about this, and why then the tile wouldn't need them anyway.
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Unread 01-30-2006, 07:37 PM   #2
Rd Tile
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Inside or out?
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Unread 01-30-2006, 07:49 PM   #3
Levi the Tile Guy
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Inside. and this room is their game room / hallway / entertainment room. ie pool table, foozball, big screen t.v.
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Unread 01-30-2006, 07:55 PM   #4
Rd Tile
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If the slab is in good shape, I would install a crack isolation membrane over the whole slab and tile it, leave a 1/4" gap at all the walls for expansion.
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Unread 01-30-2006, 11:30 PM   #5
T_Hulse
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Quote:
the slab was something new that didn't need joints
Sounds awful fishy to me. Even if that were true, the tile still needs it on it's own. Even the best membrane won't prevent it from eventually cracking out in all the doorways. That's 2200 sf? If so, it's joint's or walk for me.

If it's 220 sf then I would use Ditra without joints as long as it's one big area, & there are no areas separated from the main mass by skinny transitions like doorways or hallways.
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Unread 01-30-2006, 11:33 PM   #6
Levi the Tile Guy
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no it's 2200 sf. the bottom level of the house. I told them I needed to use joints, I was just wondering about the "new tchnology" no joint slab. I'd never heard of such a thing and wondering if anybody else had. They said the fact it was poured on sandstone makes a dif.??? Thanks for the replies though.
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Unread 01-30-2006, 11:44 PM   #7
Hamilton
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Even if its a post tension slab id give the job a membrane. put your control
joints where they go.
You can use colord sanded caulking to hide the joint dont let it stress you.
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Unread 01-30-2006, 11:49 PM   #8
Bill Vincent
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Why don't you find out what's so special about this slab-- whether it's a chemical added to the concrete, a special grade of concrete, a certain method of pouring it, or what the story is. Atleast then you (and WE ) could research it and find out for sure.
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Unread 01-31-2006, 12:02 AM   #9
T_Hulse
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Even if the slab doesn't crack, it still moves, & even if it doesn't move, it won't stop the tile from moving. The joints are for the tile, not the slab. You still need joints.
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Unread 01-31-2006, 02:28 PM   #10
Rob, P.E.
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It's probably a fiber-reinforced concrete, which incorporate fibers of high-tensile steel or fiberglass. Not at all new, maybe to some residential construction, but old stuff we engineers work with all the time in concrete and shotcrete. I poured my basement and porch slabs and driveways with it. Because this is tensile reinforcement and distributed across the entire slab volume (area and thickness) evenly, it GREATLY reduces cracking due to shrinkage and settlement. Typically, unless there was gross negligence with subgrade preparation, fiber-reinforced concrete will not crack as long as proper expansion is left at the edge and at any abutting immovables such as a footer for a lolly column. If it does crack, the fibers keep the crack from widening. Anyway, common physics tells us that two materials of different expansion characteristics need room to move when in intimate contact. So, if they want no joints in the tile, have them sign a release of liability for you.

Edit: Just saw the poured on sandstone? Is there shallow bedrock in the area? If so, and the slab really is atop the bedrock sandstone the only stress that slab will see is from shrinkage and applied loading. With fiber-reinforced concrete on bedrock (should also be a layer of gravel below to even reaction modulus and for drainage) cracking will not be of concern for the slab.

Last edited by Rob, P.E.; 01-31-2006 at 02:46 PM.
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Unread 01-31-2006, 02:35 PM   #11
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Oops, didn't see that little o.

If this is broken up up into seperate rooms, no worries.
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Unread 01-31-2006, 04:30 PM   #12
kevjob
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i have seen the bombproof concrete we still intsalled protecto wrap and incorporated expansion joints
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