Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Unread 04-12-2020, 12:10 PM   #16
ss3964spd
Moderator
 
ss3964spd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfax, Va
Posts: 5,203
Send a message via Yahoo to ss3964spd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davy
The mastic will work fine in a dry location like a backsplash.
See?

Kidding aside, I very respectfully defer to a pro, which I am not. I do still maintain that mastic goes on comparatively thin so if those looong tiles are not flat you may get less than ideal adhesion. Check them first.
__________________
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent, but my ability to access it is intermittent.
ss3964spd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2020, 12:33 PM   #17
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 34,067
I remember tiling a backsplash using mastic and a couple years later the homeowners wanted to change out the tile. I figured, heck, I stuck it with mastic, I'll easily remove it and slap the new tiles up. Not quite. It ripped the drywall off in big pieces so I had to replace it all.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-12-2020, 06:53 PM   #18
patrick_here
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Dupont, Washington
Posts: 38
Thanks very much Dan and Davy for your input on this question of adhering the tile to the drywall. I suppose another argument against the mastic is the size of these tiles (24"x6") - the fact that the mastic might not dry as cleanly on large ledger tiles like that as it would on (for example) 4x4 tiles ...so the chemical-setting characteristic of the mortar would be more appropriate.

I don't have any of these ledger panels just yet but I do have a 10" wide sample from the dealer ...I've attached a photo of the back of it.

I'm thinking that I should use a modified mortar ...so before deciding on the specific trowel-notch-size to use and whether or not to back-butter, should I first check these tiles for flatness/warpage when they arrive and make the decision after I know the answer to that question?
Attached Images
 
__________________
Patrick
patrick_here is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-13-2020, 07:01 AM   #19
ss3964spd
Moderator
 
ss3964spd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fairfax, Va
Posts: 5,203
Send a message via Yahoo to ss3964spd
From a drying standpoint, mastic on that size tile isn't that much of an issue in a back splash application. It won't be subject to water or being bumped into, and hopefully not foot traffic. You're grout is likely to care if it's dry, though, but that also shouldn't be an issue as the mastic that's exposed to air in the grout lines should dry (enough) after a couple of days.

From that photo there appears to be a lot of reliefs in the back of that tile, which I'll guess is going to make it a challenge, perhaps, to eyeball just how flat they are. And given your description of their face you won't be able to place them face-to-face either to make a flatness determination, either.

So, deep reliefs in the back, undetermined flatness...yeah, thinset mortar all the way. If you have a HD near you Versabond mortar will do the trick.

If you back butter those, and I think you should, you'll be able to use a smaller notched trowel. I'd try a 1/4" trowel first. Back butter them, trowel on some mortar, set one tile, then remove it to check for coverage.

One thing I don't recall being mentioned; the length of those tiles places more emphasis on a flat substrate. You should probably get a straight edge on those walls to see how flat they are.
__________________
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I recall correctly my memory is excellent, but my ability to access it is intermittent.
ss3964spd is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-14-2020, 02:57 PM   #20
patrick_here
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Dupont, Washington
Posts: 38
Thanks Dan for the much needed advice. I got a 50lb bag of Versabond LFT.

The walls are surprisingly in-plane. The highest high spot isn't much more than 3/32" and there's one point where it dips gently about 3/16" over a smooth distance of almost 40" but that's mostly behind a range. Easy stuff to work with.

__________________
Patrick

Last edited by patrick_here; 04-14-2020 at 09:11 PM.
patrick_here is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-15-2020, 10:17 PM   #21
patrick_here
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Dupont, Washington
Posts: 38
The tiles have arrived. The flatness is excellent - haven't been able to find one out-of-plane by more than about 1/32" (back surface only; front is very uneven by design, of course).

I will be cutting them with a Ryobi handheld circular saw (wet: hose-fed) that uses a 4" blade.

QUESTIONS:
1. I will need to cut a total of about 40 lineal feet of straight cuts in tile plus cutouts for 9 electrical outlets. Is it reasonable to expect that this little 4" blade might be able to cut that much? (I would also have the option of renting a regular wetsaw for the straight cuts and using this handheld circular saw just for the outlets).
2. If I wear out this blade, how should I go about finding a good quality 4" diamond blade for cutting these porcelain tiles. There are stores like HD and Lowes near where I live.

Thanks for this advice!
__________________
Patrick

Last edited by patrick_here; 04-16-2020 at 07:47 AM.
patrick_here is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-17-2020, 07:43 PM   #22
patrick_here
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Dupont, Washington
Posts: 38
Help: is this cut impossible?

I'm having a BIG problem cutting outlets in these porcelain tiles - which are large but narrow. I'm making progress on it but I'm worried that my ratio of broken tiles to successful cuts is too high so far. The tiles are 6" high by 24" long and the outlets are all embedded right in the middle of the row. See attached image (it cracked; I epoxied it). The hole is just over 3.5" high by about 2" wide. I am trying to make this cut with a handheld wet saw with a 4" diamond blade. I have gotten to the point where I am simply plunge cutting from above (ie: freehand - without resting the saw on the work). The problem, of course, seems to be getting sufficient support for the overhanging end without applying too much or too little force. Only the back side of these tiles is flat; the front is uneven by design - so I don't even have the option of doing the cuts entirely from behind. The tiles just seem to be incredibly brittle ..however each time I break one I notice one more problem with my technique.

So my question; is there a special tool or or a special technique or something I need to be aware of?
Attached Images
 
__________________
Patrick
patrick_here is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-17-2020, 08:10 PM   #23
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 95,691
Patrick, you might wanna try drilling a quarter-inch hole in each corner and then plunge cutting to those holes. You won't get very deep on the front, which I'm sure you discovered, but you should be able to finish by cutting from the back.

You can get a diamond core saw for that, which would be my first choice. There are other arrow-point types of drill bits for tile, but I find the core bits work better. Dealer's choice. I would do all the drilling at home on my drill press given the opportunity. Yeah, a bit tedious, but I hope nobody promised you easy.

I like to lay the tiles on a scrap of carpet to do that cutting to cut down on vibration problems. And I don't think I'd try such small holes by plunge cutting with my hand-held wet saw. I'd more likely use an angle grinder, but not one that has only one very fast speed.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-17-2020, 08:24 PM   #24
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 34,067
Yep, it's best to use a variable speed grinder so you can slow it down. But still, if the blade is worn and out of round then it will bounce and vibrate, possibly breaking the tile anyway.
__________________
Davy

www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-17-2020, 08:31 PM   #25
patrick_here
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Dupont, Washington
Posts: 38
Thanks CX! Any further comment on why you would choose a (dry) angle grinder instead of the handheld wet saw? I don't have an angle grinder right now (nor do I have access to a good enough respirator) ...but my hand is very steady with the wet saw. Hadn't thought of the carpet idea ...will look forward to trying that.

Also, I don't have a drill press but would be able to come up with a good enough process to guide the 1/4" hole saw.
__________________
Patrick
patrick_here is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-17-2020, 08:45 PM   #26
cx
Moderator emeritus
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 95,691
With the wet saw I have it would be more difficult to see through/around the foot as well as I could see a blade in my angle grinder. Wouldn't necessarily cut dry with the angle grinder, but I have one diamond blade that I'm sure would do a nice job of it.

Maybe your wet saw is different?

Whatever works for you is the right tool, regardless what people not known to you onna Internet might say, eh?

It's the corner drilling that I primarily wanted to suggest.

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE!
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-17-2020, 08:47 PM   #27
patrick_here
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Dupont, Washington
Posts: 38
Hmmm... I'm not sufficiently experienced to judge whether this blade is worn enough to be a source of the problem ...will get a new one and try with that.

So if I were to buy a variable speed hand grinder, I would have the option of squirting with a continuous stream of water ...would that be a good idea?

(I'm thinking that would keep the dust down so that a good respirator wouldn't be so critical.)
__________________
Patrick
patrick_here is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-17-2020, 08:51 PM   #28
patrick_here
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Dupont, Washington
Posts: 38
I also have the problem of not being experienced enough to buy the best diamond blade ...I don't know which ones are better quality.
__________________
Patrick
patrick_here is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-17-2020, 09:22 PM   #29
Gozo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 577
I had good luck cutting outlet holes in large porcelain tiles with the angle grinder and a pretty generic diamond blade from one of the big box stores.
Looking at the pattern and texture on the tile, assuming your outlets are pretty much at the same height, could you move the pattern up or down a bit so you’d only have to make a bunch of “U” shaped cuts? That may require a skinny at the top or bottom, but rarely is the space so accommodating as to be an exact number of tiles high anyway.
Also, on using the core bits without a drill press: try a 1/4” piece of wood with a hole drilled in it the same size as the core bit. Tape it down to the tile (duct tape works OK) and use it as a drill guide. The thinner wood let’s you get some water down to the diamond grit to keep it cool. Slow speed and progress is key to not having a lot of backside chip out.
__________________
Jeff
Gozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-17-2020, 09:29 PM   #30
patrick_here
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Dupont, Washington
Posts: 38
Jeff, unfortunately, the first row of tile on this backsplash is set already (thinset mortar) so I don't have the option of moving the horizontal grout line up or down ...but thanks for the suggestion.

Regarding the core bit, yes I was planning to use a guide similar to that ...thanks for that advice ...and for the input on the blade.
__________________
Patrick
patrick_here is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kitchen backsplash project update...Seek advice for new project TheN00b Tile Forum/Advice Board 11 02-04-2011 05:01 PM
Kitchen Backsplash Project - 1st Tiling Project jfranch Tile Forum/Advice Board 3 08-23-2009 04:56 AM
Kitchen Backsplash Project lionsnwings Tile Forum/Advice Board 1 01-02-2009 04:22 PM
Kitchen Backsplash Project macbillybob Tile Forum/Advice Board 10 08-23-2008 07:53 AM
Kitchen backsplash project dlynen Tile Forum/Advice Board 18 04-24-2008 05:37 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:00 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2018 John Bridge & Associates, LLC