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Unread 09-14-2005, 11:41 AM   #1
Adanacdjm
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Question Help and Guidance Needed - novice doing a Shower install

Hello all,

I've made a blunder and need some help. Had to rip out an ensuite shower due to leakage and rotten walls. Old shower walls were plywood that were inside the pvc pan liner, they were wet and rotten. Gutted the shower down to studs and bare wooden floor.

Currently replacing plumbing, but have run into a glitch on the pan liner and walls. In my zeal to get this done I but in the backerboard with the grey vinyl side. I have fibreglassed taped the joints and applied mortar to the joints and screw holes. It is in place about 3 " off the floor. I want to put in my sloped subfloor, then place pan liner and pour pad. I wanted to prevent the water damage to the walls so I thought why not run the pan liner up the front of the backerboard about 1" and glue it. This way I was hoping to get no water damage top the board.

Okay, so then I started reading and see where most pro's run the pvc pan liner up about 6" behind the backerboard.

I am now at a cross roads. What should I do? Do I rip out the expensive backerboard and place liner behind. Is there any way to run it up 6"'s on the outside and get the tiles to adhere to it?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

David

Last edited by Adanacdjm; 09-15-2005 at 12:56 PM.
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Unread 09-14-2005, 03:31 PM   #2
Adanacdjm
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Would this work?

Okay,

Having delved deeper into this project, could I remedy my current situation by doing the following;

-Rip out about 18-24 inches of the backerboard from the floor up, so that I can attach my pan liner to the studs. Running liner up 6-8inches. Notch my studs, and fold in the liner.
-Replace backerboard, fibreglass the seam and using tile mortar fill the cracks.

I have other seams higher up on the sidewalls because the board came in 3'x5' sheets, that I've fibreglassed and sealed, having a seam within 18-24" of the pan should not be an issue? Right?

Again, thanks for your advice.

David,

Alberta, Canada
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Unread 09-14-2005, 08:12 PM   #3
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Hi David welcome. You can cut the bottom out to get your pan in. Are you using Denshield? If so I think that is suppose to go on top of the final mud bed and not be imbedding in it. Someone may correct me if I'm wrong.
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Unread 09-15-2005, 10:12 AM   #4
Adanacdjm
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Thanks Mike

From reading other threads it seems that I want to keep my backerboard off the pad, other wise it might wic water up the back. In a couple of the post they suggest a bead of caulking between the pad and the sidewall board.

Is the caulking just the standard bathroom type or should I be looking for somthing else? Could I use the mortar that I used on the backerboard seams, screws and for tiling onto the board?

Sidenote - I live in Alberta, but grew up Musky fishing in central Ontario. Nothing like a 30lb lunker coming up and rolling across your musky plug. Just to tease you.

Thanks,

David
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Unread 09-15-2005, 01:03 PM   #5
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Pan Liner over the curb/threshold

Okay,

I'm getting ready to install my pan liner. In reviewing the threads, I see where the entire threshold is covered in pvc pan liner. No problemo. I've made my corner patches, the liner is properly folded and tucked away behind the backerboard and am ready to move forward, but???

I see where some folks have covered the curb/threshold with mud so the tiles will adhere to it. This makes sense because I do not want to tile onto the wooden curb, it should be protected from any water.

What I do not see is how you get the mud to adhere to the liner on the curb. Is there something I should put over the liner to allow the mud to adhere to it? What have I missed?

Sorry for the noob questions and thanks in advance.

David
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Unread 09-16-2005, 06:41 AM   #6
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You missed the part about diamond lathe and fat mud. Start with a flat piece or 2 of 2.5 diamond lath, then form a U shape that is slightly over bent so it will cling to the curb inside and out. Set the lath in place over the curb (being careful with the sharp edges against the liner and your hands), and tack to the outside of the curb.

Fat mud is not the same as deck mud. It is mason's mix or brick mortar. You mix it slightly looser than deck mud, but not so loose that it really slumps, because you have to free form the shape of your curb.

Go back to the Liberry and re-read the shower construction thread. There's pictures that show everything easier than trying to explain it.
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Unread 09-16-2005, 07:59 AM   #7
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Thanks Bob

Thanks Bob, I see the reference now, and it's like paint by numbers with the pics. LOL I'll be back with more questions as the job progresses.

Thanks all for the reponses.

David

Alberta, Canada
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Unread 09-16-2005, 10:24 AM   #8
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Be sure to come back to this thread. We'll be waiting for ya!
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Unread 09-17-2005, 08:02 PM   #9
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Slope of preslope and final pad?

Hi guys, some questions prior to entering the next phase,

I'm preparing to pour my preslope pad, 1/4" per foot away from the drain to the wall.

Q#1- If my furtherest wall is 2&1/2" feet, then my outside slope sould be 5/8" above the height of the drain?

Q#2- Even though the curb is only 1.5' away, I should ensure my preslope is 5/8" higher then the drain height all the way around?

Q#3- What should my preslope outside height be? If I want say 1" around the drain the outside ht should be 1 &5/8"

Q4 After the preslope has set -24 Hrs? I can then install my pan - correct? Once the pan liner has been installed with the proper corners, what should be the height of the inside deck mud? Also when when I pour the deck mud for the pan around the drain does this need to be sloped at the same height out to the edges, or should I just level it?

Q50 -Finally, the height of the pan cement should be just about 1/4" below the drain lip to allow the placement of the tile which is 1/4". Correct?

Thanks again for your patience and your responses.

David
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Unread 09-17-2005, 08:43 PM   #10
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1. You want to measure to the farthest point from the drain, which will prolly be in a corner. If you've got a wall 2 1/2 feet away, you prolly have a corner closer to three feet, so you would want at least 3/4 inch rise.

2. Whatever the height at the farthest point will also be the height everywhere else around the perimeter.

3. Sounds like reasonably good math.

4. You can install the pan liner as soon as the pre-slope is firm enough to walk on. But 24 hours is certainly long enough. The final mud bed should be at least 1 1/4 inches thick, 1 1/2 is even better. Stay under 2" if you can. You are placing the final mud over a pre-sloped floor; make it the same thickness everywhere and you will naturally have an adequate slope.

5. Allow for the actual tile and thinset. Best to actually set a tile on there when you're placing the mud and get it zackly right if you can. Err on the side of having the tile slightly above the drain, never the other way round.

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Unread 09-29-2005, 02:03 PM   #11
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Next question.

Hello all,

Okay, had to take some time of the reno to get out and shot some geese here on the prairies. Now that I've done that, I have to get back to work.

I have finished my preslope, and it looks good. Had to use a little thinset mortar right around the drain because it was a little thin and crumbly. The pan PVC pan liner I am using is black and I've got that all tucked in.

Q1- Should I build the cement curb (as outlined in the library) over the threshold before or after I pour the shower pan inside the pvc liner?

Q2- Now when I pour the shower pad inside the liner I want it to be an even height across the whole thing. So 2 inches at the drain and 2 inches at the walls. What's the best way to mark the black PVC? Or should I do something else that will help me get a consistent height all the way around. Can I place 1 1/2" or 2" wooden strips at the edge of the walls and then once I have the right height pull the strips out and back fill with cement?

Q3- As numerous pros have said do not use denshield. Unfortunately, I had not read that before purchasing and installing the denshield as the wall in the shower. I have fibreglassed taped and mortared all the screw holes and seams with thinset mortar. Once the pan is poured, I intend to leave 1/4" between the cement and the denshield, and fill this gap with a flexible sealant.
Please -what is a flexible sealant - white bathroom caulking?

Q4 - Now once the pan is poured and the curb is finished, where should I start tiling- the walls or the floor? Is one better then the other?

Thanks all for your input it is appreciated.

David
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Unread 10-08-2005, 08:10 AM   #12
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bump

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